Kronos 2 replacement

[GregC]

I know Roland went thru significant financial and management changes some 4-6 yrs ago.

So I know nothing about your statement about the factory in Italy ( from 2014). Roland delisted from the Tokyo Stock Exchange in 2014.

I see recent positives with Roland. I think their product support is very good.
I like the FA line up. They had a good presence at Jan 2018 NAMM.

I prefer to emphasize the current Roland vs what happened some years ago due to the changes they likely had to make.

I said that about Roland because Dexibell is made up of former Roland Italy employees. Roland's decision has created a competitor that I think is going to become formidable in the near future. Roland also sold the Rodgers organ company.

Yes, I see that about the Dexibel operation. I read your opinion. I prefer the bigger picture and certain facts in determining what ' success ' is.

Roland manufactures and offers much more than keyboards. They are more diverse and play in more market places than a Korg. Roland has been competing with Korg and Yamaha for decades. Competition, new and old is the norm for all these cos.

It appears Roland had to sell off some assets back in 2014. If we had their financials we could objectively determine their current level of success. I also prefer to go by the #'s vs some speculation.

[ITguy54]

I said that about Roland because Dexibell is made up of former Roland Italy employees. Roland's decision has created a competitor that I think is going to become formidable in the near future. Roland also sold the Rodgers organ company.

Yes, I see that about the Dexibel operation. I read your opinion. I prefer the bigger picture and certain facts in determining what ' success ' is.

Roland manufactures and offers much more than keyboards. They are more diverse and play in more market places than a Korg. Roland has been competing with Korg and Yamaha for decades. Competition, new and old is the norm for all these cos.

It appears Roland had to sell off some assets back in 2014. If we had their financials we could objectively determine their current level of success. I also prefer to go by the #'s vs some speculation.

Fine, but the big picture is made up of the smaller details. You go ahead and focus on the whole forest. I'll pay attention to the details so I'll know why the forest changes before you do.

[studio460]

I think Roland saw the future when it EOL'd its Fantom line 10 years ago. Regardless of my personal feelings or needs, I think Roland made a smart move when they re-imagined their entire line and developed the Aira-system product concept, which I'm guessing is selling well to the EDM market. Lower per-unit costs, lower price-points, and likely greater margins.

The new, updated Roland Aira TR-8S rhythm performer in particular is sold-out everywhere, and seems to be a major hit. Roland's JD-XA is modern twist on their signature VA synths which I think is quite cool (so cool, I just bought one). It houses just two PCBs in a lightweight (i.e., "cheap") plastic case—likely a design choice which yields lower costs and higher margins. Available plug-outs and free Roland Axial patch-downloads are added extras which sweeten the pot to prospective (e.g., younger) buyers not as tuned to build-quality, and perhaps more price-sensitive.

Yamaha saw the future too, with their new Montage, and EOL-status of the Motif series. I'm betting the Korg Kronos may be the last major workstation to be marketed by any of the Big Three, with modulars, legacy-style synths, beat-machines, and soft-synths gaining in popularity. I highly doubt Korg is willing to invest the hundreds or thousands of man/woman-hours required to develop an updated OS and UI. I think simple cosmetic refreshes are all we can expect in Kronos' future. So, get your Kronos now, while you can still get one, new-in-the-box!

[ITguy54]

Yamaha saw the future too, with their new Montage, and EOL-status of the Motif series. I'm betting the Korg Kronos may be the last major workstation to be marketed by any of the Big Three, with modulars, legacy-style synths, beat-machines, and soft-synths gaining in popularity. I highly doubt Korg is willing to invest the hundreds or thousands of man/woman-hours required to develop an updated OS and UI.

I wouldn't put any money behind that.

[GregC]

I think Roland saw the future when it EOL'd its Fantom line 10 years ago. Regardless of my personal feelings or needs, I think Roland made a smart move when they re-imagined their entire line and developed the Aira-system product concept, which I'm guessing is selling well to the EDM market. Lower per-unit costs, lower price-points, and likely greater margins.


Yamaha saw the future too, with their new Montage, and EOL-status of the Motif series. I'm betting the Korg Kronos may be the last major workstation to be marketed by any of the Big Three, with modulars, legacy-style synths, beat-machines, and soft-synths gaining in popularity.

1)I highly doubt Korg is willing to invest the hundreds or thousands of man/woman-hours required to develop an updated OS and UI. I think simple cosmetic refreshes are all we can expect in Kronos' future. So, get your Kronos now, while you can still get one, new-in-the-box!

1) thats a good observation for a new Kronos owner. I like it when musicians study the big 3 and analyze the changing marketplace.

To support your opinion, Korg current president started making changes roughly 2012/2013, well after Kronos was launched. Korg does not think ' in a straight line ' like other electronic cos.

Cosmetic refreshes is all that has really happened with Kronos the past 2 years. Different colors etc. . Nothing aggressive . Plus more sound alike derivatives. like Grand Stage or LS

You are correct, it is an expensive project for re-built, newly purposed w/s. We know Korg has the capability.

But if we accept that Korg does not plan ' in a straight line ', it is fair to say a rebuilt state of the art w/s is not likely. An expensive project.

There is no doubt one can get excellent enjoyment from a Kronos. It sounds great . Thats the simple #1 reason why a w/s with +7 yr old tech still sells for $3500 new.

[Rich Z]

Back when I bought my Kronos 2, I was debating between buying it or the Pa4X. I found myself wishing Korg would come up with a merging of the two lines into one. I felt that the Kronos had much better sound quality and variety of canned programs and combis, whereas the Pa4X, although comparatively lacking in that department (in my opinion), was just better suited to a very limited talent keyboard doodler like myself.

Now with Yamaha coming out with their new Genos I wonder (hope?) if that might influence Korg into moving somewhat in the same direction?

I have toyed with the idea of also buying a Pa4X, but now with looking at the Genos, I am debating buying a Genos instead or just waiting to see if Korg makes a response to Yamaha's offering.

I know no one knows what might be on Korg's mind, but I would like to hope that Yamaha raising the ante might signal a trend that I have been hoping for.

But of course, this is pretty much just thinking out loud....

[ITguy54]

You are correct, it is an expensive project for re-built, newly purposed w/s. We know Korg has the capability.

But if we accept that Korg does not plan ' in a straight line ', it is fair to say a rebuilt state of the art w/s is not likely. An expensive project.

There is no doubt one can get excellent enjoyment from a Kronos. It sounds great . Thats the simple #1 reason why a w/s with +7 yr old tech still sells for $3500 new.

It wouldn't have to be a totally new design and therefore it wouldn't be as expensive as a clean sheet instrument to develop.

Putting in a more current and faster processor, along with a much higher capacity SSD would be a good start. Adding some engines would be the biggest part of the development, but something like an additive synthesis/resynthesis engine wouldn't take a lot of development.

Your comment that it is still selling well is adequate proof that a WS is still a valid concept in the current marketplace.

[SeedyLee]

My thoughts?

Dan Philips must be busy working on something over there in their California R&D department. He's been awfully quiet over here on the forums. The Volcas, Minilogue, Monologue and Prologue have all come out of their Japan office.

So they're cooking something up that's not analogue in nature, I'm sure of it.

The Kronos has, as far as I can tell, been a good seller for Korg. They basically own the workstation market now. They've also invested heavily in the Kronos/OASYS operating system and DSP and that's not something that will date quickly. I tend to think we'll see another product based on the same platform in the next couple of years.

[GregC]

My thoughts?

Dan Philips must be busy working on something over there in their California R&D department. He's been awfully quiet over here on the forums. The Volcas, Minilogue, Monologue and Prologue have all come out of their Japan office.

So they're cooking something up that's not analogue in nature, I'm sure of it.

The Kronos has, as far as I can tell, been a good seller for Korg. They basically own the workstation market now. They've also invested heavily in the Kronos/OASYS operating system and DSP and that's not something that will date quickly. I tend to think we'll see another product based on the same platform in the next couple of years.

Without a doubt OASYS/Kronos has unique strengths that should support an imagined new W/s product.

But both iconic keyboards have expensive obstacles that need and require a new direction. The UI and file system is arcane. It would be a mistake to continue to try to bolt on to this. This is just 1 expensive new project example.

At best, IMO, we might see a better powered Kronos 3. For an electronics co like Korg, that would be a 'safe' ( low risk) investment and not cost $500,000 ( to pick a R & D figure) to fund and implement.

Write to Dan and see what he is up to.

I think every Korg resource is single mindedly focused on selling the many new products. Thats the priority.

I doubt there is any independent ' California R & D ". Development project teams are global and draw on/combine their diverse strengths. Korgs best asset is their many creative people. And how they team up. Having global teams has been around for at least 2 decades.