If Korg .....

[Arend Groot]

I voted no. Not because I don't love my OASYS, it is the most beautiful instrument I have ever owned.

But I also did spend this amount of money because korg promised 'the whole new platform for the years to come' and that doesn't fit with replacing the O for O2.

[UCanDream]

Eloquently put, Arend. Very nice.

And I also agree wholeheartedly with Daz. The Oasys, even when it doesn't measure up to our expectations in the development and 3rd party support areas, it is still an awesome synth on so many levels. Really, does any synth out there, even now, surpass the Oasys overall? Not in my experience. I tend to think that many of you would agree. And it holds this elevated position in the face of a lot of criticism, verbal abuse and seeming disdain and unprecedented disappointments. So the controversy, as I see it, isn't that the Oasys has short comings. EVERY synth has those. Available technology and R&D resources dictate this. It's our MONEY!! We invested OUR money in Korg's....and I'm just going to say this, in Korg's promises. And how did Korg respond to our faith in their word, our trust in their development team, and our hard earned dollars that COULD have been spent on Roland, Yamaha or others? How did Korg treat our money?....They effectively said, "Tough titties, boys and girls! Not quite enough of you had ten thousand dollars-- so those of you that did-- well, go look at what we did to the M3 that we want you to buy now. Oh, and forget everything that we ever insinuated about 'open ended architecture' and the future for the Oasys. Just forget all that."

But then again, I love my Oasys. I even like Sina's Aosys. (hehehe)

On another positive note, Dan and Jerry and the UK Korg guy have been super cool guys. Always very helpful. And I am sure that they feel just a touch of impatience from time to time with questions that are RIGHT IN the dang manual...and rightfully so. You guys all deserve a our thanks for hanging in there with us. I always wished I had more helpful things to add to the group but I always do appreciate your guy's support and help. (A sour note now: I saw an Oasys on eBay a few weeks ago and it had some big @$$ manual and I think I know what it was...it was the Parameter Guide. It was a bound publication which means that at one time [early on] Korg did offer those Parameter Guides in print to buyers. THEN they resorted to 'online manuals." **PUKE** Just so you Korg guys know, a book is WAY the heck easier to thumb thru than moving some scrollbar on an Adobe Reader a couple of micromillimeters at a time...hence a lot of the questions that COULD have been found in the book. It's a pain in the @$$ to resort to that CD. I WOULD HAVE paid the $40-$60 to buy the book from Korg. Okay, enough on that.)

Well, I think I have said enough on this thread....we'll see. Hey, if I keep throwing in my 2 cents worth does that mean I'm still investing in Korg? Gawd I hope not! Honestly, though, Korg's stuff rocks! In another thread I referred to my continued use of the 01/W. I just love their stuff. But they lost me as a customer.

Alright....all done now.


Cheers,
David

[vEddY]

So many points to reply to here I don't where to begin ... I'll just freeform here and right more as I go ...

* I have a lot of sympathy for what Martin and David have written. That's pretty much how I feel too.

* Regarding the amount and strength of 'negative' postings - what surprises me more is the lack of what might be called 'positive' postings to balance those up. The Oasys is just amazing and I see some folks clearly get that, but it sometimes seems the joy of owning of this great instrument doesn't seem to come across as much as it's foibles. There are so many things to explore and harness for creativity, but those topics have always been less in volume. With an instrument of this complexity I have always felt a team effort was required to get the most of it.

* Would I buy another Oasys variant ? I voted 'no'. Not because the product wouldn't be awesome, but because the Oasys experience has shifted two things for me. Firstly I wouldn't invest this kind of money in a single item of this type again. It doesn't work for me, thinking retrospectively. Secondly, my Korg "customer satisfaction" has taken a couple of hits. I am still a great fan of the brilliant Korg products I own, but I am not so much of a fan of the Korg brand anymore. Sorry to be frank, but hey everyone else gets to say what they want.

* Thanks to all for your show of appreciation for our efforts.

Daz.

No positive things? I was Tried to be honest and constructive And pointed out that this is one HELL of a live keyboard to play. Super-fun and just eats everything in front of it in a band - guitar, vocal, drums, whatever. Sort of like Mesa/Boogie amp coupled with a really good guitar player. No matter how low on volume you are, it just gives you goosebumps. Same with OASYS.

At the risk of sounding redundant, I'm gonna repeat what I said. It's the best live keyboard, by a mile. No Roland, Yamaha, Access, Nord or Kurzweil can do what it can do. And it's five years old and counting. If I was Korg's competition, I would be crying my eyes out.

And I would add something that I forgot to write in my first post - it's also the best synth on the market. Period. In a way the word "synth" is ment to be used.

P.S. Sharp and you have been doing a remarkable job for years. Hopefully, for years to come as well.

P.P.S. I'm finishing a "we had fun" live CD that I did with my part-time band (translation - we had five rehersals, and recorded a concert). Took some 13-14 songs off that, just mixing and finishing it. I'm only using OASYS on this and it just plain kicks ass. No overdubs, no additional recordings, no nothing. Mostly 80's, pop, rock stuff. Links to follow up shortly.

[Mike Conway]

If there is something to be learned from this discussion, it would be that no manufacturer should claim anything other than what is currently in the box. I bought the OASYS for what was in the box, in 2005. Imagine if everyone else bought it for what was in the box, currently. They would be utterly smitten with the extras that came unexpectedly and not expectedly, like Access has been doing with the major Virus TI updates. (a full featured Version 4 OS forthcoming).

That's not to say that Korg should have changed anything.......just the marketing description. Imagine how pissed some people would be if the marketing said "Future EXs, EXi, EXf.....and Sequencer upgrades!

I've been buying hardware long enough to know that when a Peavey DMP3 or Roland VariOS comes out and promises to buck "obsolescence." that I will take marketing claims with a grain of salt! In the beginning, I really didn't expect the OASYS to get half as much as it got.

Access did marketing right, by not saying anything about new types of synthesis, even though they probably intended continued development.

Never buy for a promise of what isn't already there.

[Charlie]

This is OT and perhaps philosophical: I doubt anyone posting here managed to keep all promises he made. I certainly didn't do that. Almost every time people are pissed off about something it is because it points back at their own "weaker spots". Of course it is seldom exactly the same issue - but one being similar enough to "hurt".

Korg made the first synth I played on (Poly 61), the first one I could afford as a youngster (Poly 800), the one I've used most in my first band (DW8000) ... and they made the most expensive synth I've ever bought. It seems I didn't study Korgs Marketing materials as close as most people did do here. I was more interested in what Oasys can do now (= 2006) and what it sounds like. Of course I knew about the "open-concept" and regarded it as a nice possibility for future updates, as long as this makes sense for Korg and the hardware is not outdated. In my head I estimated that might mean about 5 years for "major" updates and perhaps a few more for minor ones. I didn't expect complete new synth-engines (like Mod7) and was totally positively surprised about that! I expected updates of the sequencer, new effects and continuos improvement of the existing synth-engines. I was disappointed esp. about M3 getting the sequ-updates asked for whereas Oasys did not. But over all - esp. given the great synth I still own - it was and is a fair deal for me. If Korg produces another product I like in the future I certainly will buy it - provided there's not a better one by a competitor.

As for marketing-promises broken: there are certain words in Marketing I immediately close my ears to as soon as I hear or read them. One of them is "for years to come". Just like Mike wrote: don't buy any gear for features that MIGHT come in the future. It is a fact that promises are not always kept. Don't pretend you didn't know that - try keeping your promises all the time instead.

[zolhof]

I voted no. Not because I don't love my OASYS, it is the most beautiful instrument I have ever owned.

But I also did spend this amount of money because korg promised 'the whole new platform for the years to come' and that doesn't fit with replacing the O for O2.

+1 again. I said the exact same thing on the "official statement" topic and you were the only person that replied lol

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... ars#283405

"It gives you an open system, so you can have new technology inside of your Oasys for years to come"

This is a quote from a official Korg video. I honestly believed that "years to come" meant at least a whole decade when I decided to invest $10k (Brasil) in a single instrument...

[zolhof]

Eloquently put, Arend. Very nice.

(A sour note now: I saw an Oasys on eBay a few weeks ago and it had some big @$$ manual and I think I know what it was...it was the Parameter Guide. It was a bound publication which means that at one time [early on] Korg did offer those Parameter Guides in print to buyers. THEN they resorted to 'online manuals." **PUKE** Just so you Korg guys know, a book is WAY the heck easier to thumb thru than moving some scrollbar on an Adobe Reader a couple of micromillimeters at a time...hence a lot of the questions that COULD have been found in the book. It's a pain in the @$$ to resort to that CD. I WOULD HAVE paid the $40-$60 to buy the book from Korg. Okay, enough on that.)

Hi David,

I understand your point and I'm one of the "lucky" owners of the printed version of the manual (yes, it's like a bible). I think they stopped printing because of ecological issues...

[X-Trade]

Eloquently put, Arend. Very nice.

(A sour note now: I saw an Oasys on eBay a few weeks ago and it had some big @$$ manual and I think I know what it was...it was the Parameter Guide. It was a bound publication which means that at one time [early on] Korg did offer those Parameter Guides in print to buyers. THEN they resorted to 'online manuals." **PUKE** Just so you Korg guys know, a book is WAY the heck easier to thumb thru than moving some scrollbar on an Adobe Reader a couple of micromillimeters at a time...hence a lot of the questions that COULD have been found in the book. It's a pain in the @$$ to resort to that CD. I WOULD HAVE paid the $40-$60 to buy the book from Korg. Okay, enough on that.)

Hi David,

I understand your point and I'm one of the "lucky" owners of the printed version of the manual (yes, it's like a bible). I think they stopped printing because of ecological issues...

I think it was stated before that they gave up on printed manuals because of the nature of the instrument - it was designed to take lots of OS updates, and each OS update made considerable changes, so the original manual that came with it is outdated and a lot of the information does not apply, like trying to use the v1 M3 manual on an M3 Expanded - a lot of the menu items are not there or are in different places.
I think Dan has recommended before to make sure you are using the latest version that came with the latest update you applied.

[zolhof]

I think it was stated before that they gave up on printed manuals because of the nature of the instrument - it was designed to take lots of OS updates, and each OS update made considerable changes, so the original manual that came with it is outdated and a lot of the information does not apply, like trying to use the v1 M3 manual on an M3 Expanded - a lot of the menu items are not there or are in different places.
I think Dan has recommended before to make sure you are using the latest version that came with the latest update you applied.

Thanks for the clarification

[Sharp]

I bought this for my wife a year ago for Christmas and after seeing it in use and considering the age we are in, I hope KORG never prints a manual every again.





You can put the entire families needs on one of theses, and that's exactly what we have done. Every manual for everything we own, every story book and even our own personal files.

Regards
Sharp.

[SoulBe]

Hi,

I also think that korg will not have a negative impression out of this thread / forum because most of us gave an explaination why they voted yes or no.

Although I bought my O not long before they stopped producing it, I don´t feel ripped because I got what was "in the box" and for my purpose the combination of several synth engines was important to reduce a large live rig from 3 keyboards and a siderack with several modules down to 2 Keyboards.

And what I don´t want to forget of course, thanks to Sharp and Daz for running this exquisite forum which gives inspiration and answers; without it I would sometimes feel left alone with my O

Regards
SoulBe

[thekeymaster]

Happy New year all.....not been here for a while.

Well I voted yes......i have to admit the yes does depend on the spec but if the $/£ ratio was equal to what could be improved upon then count me in.

Thing is the big O is already bursting with great features anyway and I doubt Korg could fill another workstation with so many new features for it to happen and for me to part with my cash.It was a boutique instrument,still is and I think will remain so.The times of £4000 + workstations are gone.

As for the debate about what we think of Korg.......all a bit lame and also a bit tired.

If they came up with a new form of synthesis in 5 years time in a new kind of workstation/synth....you know ,say like the D-50/M1/DX7 type instruments of the 80's I think anyone with a vested interest in hardware would buy it..........its all about the products not the companies.

I had my moan about the sequencer way back but in all honesty the pluses totally outweigh the minuses.Korg didn't let me down, they just needed to make a business decision.

Anyway,back to music.







PS. Sharp me likes the look of that e-book device.......what da do, just transfer your PDF's etc into the it?

[Daz]

This whole 'expectations' topic is a good one and I found it interesting to read peoples comments here.

I've have recently had a little struggle with another brand and it made me think about the other side of this 'expectation' topic.

What we should or should not expect has been discussed in great detail in recent times. IMO what a company chooses to deliver or not is up to them and their realities. That is just the way it is. BUT, lets look at the other side of this. How about what these brands can expect from ME. This isn't a one way street by any means, in fact quite to the contrary. What I choose to deliver to a brand in terms of loyalty and custom is up to me and I hope their expectations aren't being set too high either (it sometimes feels they are).

In real terms this means some brands are no longer on my list of companies I consider preferred suppliers or that I have sufficient comfort with to be an 'early adopter' for. I am going to look a lot more closely at competing brands, that maybe I haven't looked at before. If other brands don't have what I require I'll be watching closely how other users get on with a product and allow some time for an alternative product to be available from a competitor. If I do buy a product from one of these brands with whom I have had an unsatisfactory experience, I am more likely to simply return it for a refund than attempt to pursue the issues to get a working product. Maybe there is a product out there right now that I feel would be a great fit for me, but I am not just jumping in there as I might have before. I am taking more time and checking out alternatives and users' feedback. It's just a matter of common sense and practical reality for me the customer.

When talking about expectations, I think it is important to consider the flip side of the coin too.

A strong brand should not just want a customer to buy a product, but to buy into the brand.

Daz.

[Daz]

its all about the products not the companies.

I disagree

[Sharp]

Sharp me likes the look of that e-book device.......what da do, just transfer your PDF's etc into the it?

Yep, just dump the PDF on to it and away you go.
It comes up as a removable disk when you connect it to your PC's usb port so it's just drag and drop to send files to it.

Regards
Sharp