Again,NO M.O.S.S.

[Synthoid]

MOSS is dead... let it go.

The ONLY thing from Korg that actually its price goes up every day,
it curently sellf for whooping 750-800$ and still the most wanted thing.

Yup. It's like owning gold.

When the price hits $1000, I might sell...

[StephenKay]

For all of us, what if Xerox PARC enforced patents? What if Bell Labs did the same...or Tim Berners Lee? We couldn't even have this discussion on the web, and would just be getting used to controlling windows with mice (amongst a million other things).

For Karma Lab, you would have had to have written your own language and compiler before even beginning. Now, imagine if Peter Gannon were a patent troll? What if Yamaha's lawyers called you everyday about arpeggiators? Would you be around? Or would the cost of fighting such nonsense be so great as to crush your ideas before you had a chance to attempt them?

You may misunderstand the patent process, patent protection, patent searches, citing prior art in patents etc. - but in general, you're correct in that the topic is too deep to be debated here.

And I'll take you up on that beer...

[StephenKay]

If you solve the problem first, you win. Surely, the inventor/developer of a computer game should be able to understand that.

Win what? I didn't know that there is some competition.

Actually, there is. The game of life, the game of making money, the game of success. It's all a competition...in some way (unfortunately)...

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense.

I see you missed my irony. A game developer should be able to understand the concept of being the first across the finish line, the first to wipe out enemy, the first to conquer the highest peak, the first to break the bank at the casino, the first to get the highest score...

No one should be able to forbid other people to solve a problem based only on random chance of encountering it earlier than others.

A patent does not protect the problem. A patent protects one solution to a problem. If someone wants to solve the problem in a completely different way, they are not being prevented.

[Megakazbek]

A patent does not protect the problem. A patent protects one solution to a problem. If someone wants to solve the problem in a completely different way, they are not being prevented.

There are many problems that have one or very few most obvious solution(s) that anyone competent enough can easily find; in case someone patents this solution or solutions, then it in effect prevents other people to solve that problem (because all the other solutions may be not effective at all), though it has nothing to do with patenter's superior creative mind or hard work, he just randomly encountered that problem before anyone else. So anyone who encounters the problem later would find exactly the same solution, but cannot use it because someone already patented it.
And in general, IMHO, being first to do something should not give anyone any right to command other people what results of their own work they must not use.

[Rob Sherratt]

For all of us, what if Xerox PARC enforced patents? !

I can assure you that Xerox PARC do enforce and license their patents, and their agents are www.ipvalue.com, a web site you can check for further details.

[NuSkoolTone]

To get back on topic, and to catch me up. Whatever DID happen to MOSS?

I remember reading something like "The guy who invented it is dead, and took it to the grave".

Though for a computer company, this seems patently ABSURD.

I would assume a company like Korg would have LOTS of documentation on the technology.

Anyone care to squash this rumor?

[Zeroesque]

For all of us, what if Xerox PARC enforced patents? !

I can assure you that Xerox PARC do enforce and license their patents, and their agents are www.ipvalue.com, a web site you can check for further details.

Thanks for that patent troll company link, the kind of company that makes money by offering exactly nothing of value to the world. From their website: "IPVALUE was created in 2001..."

This would be after the inventions that I mentioned could have gone off patent. The landscape is different now, and it's unfortunate.

Bill Gates on the issue:
"If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today."

And here's a great excerpt from a Forbes article:
"The chief blue suit orchestrated the presentation of the seven patents IBM claimed were infringed, the most prominent of which was IBM's notorious "fat lines" patent: To turn a thin line on a computer screen into a broad line, you go up and down an equal distance from the ends of the thin line and then connect the four points. You probably learned this technique for turning a line into a rectangle in seventh-grade geometry, and, doubtless, you believe it was devised by Euclid or some such 3,000-year-old thinker. Not according to the examiners of the USPTO, who awarded IBM a patent on the process."

The amount of material is so large that I probably shouldn't even reply to this and post such things. I'll stop. You can now explain to everyone why software patents are so awesome -- for the lawyers.

[Zeroesque]

You may misunderstand the patent process, patent protection, patent searches, citing prior art in patents etc. - but in general, you're correct in that the topic is too deep to be debated here.

And I'll take you up on that beer...

It's true: "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing."
And I'm definitely hunting you down next year! You're practically my hero for mixing programming and music into something so useful! Cheers!

[Rob Sherratt]

Zeroesque,

Chill out man, there's no need to get offensive.

There was a factual mistake in your first statement. And now you are incorrect in your follow-up. Xerox PARC are the owners of the patents that they do indeed license, and Xerox PARC are a practicing entity. If they choose to use another company to assist them, it does not make the partner company or PARC a Troll.

Patent Trolls do exist, but make sure you can recognise one before wasting your ammunition.

Regards,
Rob

[Zeroesque]

Zeroesque,

Chill out man, there's no need to get offensive.

There was a factual mistake in your first statement. And now you are incorrect in your follow-up. Xerox PARC are the owners of the patents that they do indeed license, and Xerox PARC are a practicing entity. If they choose to use another company to assist them, it does not make the partner company or PARC a Troll.

Patent Trolls do exist, but make sure you can recognise one before wasting your ammunition.

Regards,
Rob

I didn't attack anyone personally, so I'm not sure how I was being offensive. I certainly hope you didn't take it that way.

I didn't call PARC a patent troll. To call IPValue a troll, however, is correct in my mind, but I can't take credit for it:

"IPValue Management is an example of a Trolling Agent. Its slogan,
“Return on Invention” illustrates the service that IPValue provides for its
clients."
http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~idjlaw/PDF/16-1 ... Chuang.pdf

Look, I don't hate the player...but I do hate the game. I'll agree w/ Paul Graham on this one and say that the problem is mostly w/ the USPTO and granting bogus software patents. I won't agree with what he says about software and hardware patents being equals; software is much easier since you aren't constrained to physical laws (this is neatly said by Richard Stallman).

I really can't state my position on software patents much better than those links, so I won't try. I've gone so far as to make it known to my employer in the past that I do not wish to participate in their software patent process. I did, however, want to say that I wasn't trying to offend here, but I can see that maybe this was not the place for a soapbox.

At any rate...where's my KRONOS and when will it have the MOSS expansion? I'm already bored w/ the 9 engines!

[Bach42t]

Time for bed, waiting for the love of her life. Kronos. It completes her.

[jemkeys25]

ah, the Z1, moss with its own keyboard, good job on making your bed too.

[Slovenec]

Id love to have MOSS in the Kronos as well..... but then I'd also love the price of beer to drop (it's not going to happen soon!).

I'm sure every Korg fan knows by now that the talented gentleman who created MOSS has sadly passed away. Therefore, there'll be know more deveolpment of MOSS beyond what was the fabulous Z1 (that I used to own and love) and the MOSS board for the Trinity and Triton series (I also used to really love the MOSS board inside my now sold Triton Classic).

Let's see Korg move on and develop even more powerful synthesis engines than MOSS.

[Timo]

Id love to have MOSS in the Kronos as well..... but then I'd also love the price of beer to drop (it's not going to happen soon!).

I'm sure every Korg fan knows by now that the talented gentleman who created MOSS has sadly passed away. Therefore, there'll be know more deveolpment of MOSS beyond what was the fabulous Z1 (that I used to own and love) and the MOSS board for the Trinity and Triton series (I also used to really love the MOSS board inside my now sold Triton Classic).

... ALL the engines in MOSS were developed by Korg, based on fundamental research that was done at the [Standford] university. The science of all this work was originally done by Korg R&D and taken back to Japan and developed into the products by Korg Inc. So the main algorithm design was done by our American group, and then reworked into the Prophecy and later the Z1 by Korg Inc, and that lead designer passed away shortly after the Z1 was released.

But the algorithm development and further design continued at Korg R&D (from the original/never released OASYS), and later came into fruition in the OASYS PCI, and then further developed in the OASYS keyboard

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 358#353358

As mentioned several pages back, the Kronos/Oasys has Moss. Just not the Brass, Reed and Bowed String models. It's unfortunate that it doesn't have the Brass, as I love it on my Trinity V3 moss.

[jemkeys25]

the guy who invented the computer died too, that didn't stop anyone from continuing on with his work, bring back advanced moss .

it also doesn't have resonance either.