What direction should Kronos take?

kanout · Post by **kanout** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:56 pm

Just some points:

While i respect korg enginners,technology,sounds and kronos potential(nothing bad to say about that or subjective)..

I consider the big kronos mistake is putting this technology in a semi pro box(with these diverse reliability problems).

For me,the best synth would have be the kronos technology in a real pro box like the solid yamaha motif series or jupiter 80(build like a tank)and a more stable os.

I know the kronos price explain some points,but i would pay more to have kronos technology in a solid build like a tank,more reliable case!

For these reasons,i can't have a kronos today and prefer others manufacturers.

Technology isn't all(how many kronos users are really programming all these engines?not so much i think.)
Just a simple point of view..but mine.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:44 pm

As for the old rompler engines ai/ai2/hi, though the Kronos doesn't have ALL the waveforms from those, it has many of the iconic ones, and HD1 has all parameters and more. Add to that the easy expansion via samples and you can really rebuild pretty much any of those sounds faithfully. It would therefore, in my humble opinion, be something of a time-wasting effort to recreate all those engines and add them to the Kronos.

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:45 pm

I am angry because I gave you (Korg) 3400,- € and got a faulty keybed and now have a much to loud C#3 (which I thankfully not have to use very much). That´s maybe what makes me a bit more aggressive.

When I made my decision I was not aware of the Oasis to be the Origin of the Kronos. I knew the M3 and thought the M3 was the predecessor. I ordered the Kronos without going thru all the menus and did not test the Sequencer, only the sound. And I was impressed. I expected the Kronos to be an M3++. I was in many ways wrong. In others the Kronos is much better.

And I did not complain for months without end. Only when others began that topic anew I added my complaints again.

Just to make it clear: I never wrote PMs to any of the Korg staff here and did not pester them with my wishes. I only wrote my critic in some postings and hoped that some of them would be so kind to answer and argue about it. What is a Forum for, if not arguing about the topic at hand? I only wanted to make them aware that they can improve their product in many ways and make their customers happier. Maybe the M3 Xpanded Update made me so bold as to hope for more, because it was a very generous substantial Upgrade with no cost.

And I wanted an honest answer and not wait for years like the Oasys customers for features I do or do not get. If Dan says there will be no Sequencer updates, fine(bad). I can live with that and stop complaining.

But it seems I hit a nerve. Maybe I only annoyed Danatkorg, but maybe he sees some truth in what I think is a fair evaluation. I really think the OS needs a major rewrite. It´s just true that musical instruments are 20 years behind in software engineering. The programming paradigms have changed dramatically and I see none implemented. To use a touchscreen is not the same as utilizing it in the interest of the musician. The M3 is far more advanced then the Kronos in that regard.

If you advertise something as your "flagship" it should live up to that claim and not fall behind older products just because you want to reuse your old Oasys code.

Let´s see what Korg shows at NAMM.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:09 am

Keybeds simply have to work, and to do that flawlessly. Nobody puts that into question here, and be sure that I would be very vocal and demanding getting such a kind of problem out of my way. But in this thread we discuss something else: priorities for possible further Kronos developments from user perspective.

You are not the only one hoping for a better sequencer UI in the Kronos (on actual M3 level). Other wishes have been expressed here as well. This all is not the critical point. The critical point is that it all can only be discussed by keeping a certain level of basic mutual openness and respect, at least most of the time. Not more, not less.

We talk about a great Korg project being in development since Oasys times, and I certainly feel really lucky to have access to the present stage of the project. This synth has pushed my musical creativity more than any other keyboard in the last decade. So I am first of all happy and have the feeling to have spent my money very well. And only then and after that I am of course interested in some (! not any amount of) further development within the Kronos life cycle. This can be discussed quite relaxed in this thread.

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:14 am

BobTheDog wrote:Better keybed and a better fan

+1

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:19 am

Ojustaboo wrote:A much better editor compatible with 64bit daws.

+1

The RH3 rates VERY low on piano forums digital piano section for suitability for playing piano anywhere near close to the real thing (they aren't talking about reliability of the original Kronos).

I cant comment as I haven't played a real piano for about 38 years, but the majority of those that have tried it on there do say it's awful. A lot say the latest casio pianos have a much better keyboard.

Another +1

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:37 am

Bald Eagle wrote:bigger screen/fonts.

+1

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:42 am

Saxifraga wrote:
But why the heck did you not include the M3 Xpanded improvements in the first or at least second place?
And why did the Krome get it?

Please post the percentage of faulty units. Would like to see if I was only unlucky to get a shitty keybed.

+1

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:52 am

kanout wrote: I consider the big kronos mistake is putting this technology in a semi pro box (with these diverse reliability problems).

+1

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:07 am

This is not an official support forum, and I don't have time to read everything, so here's the scoop: if you want to be rude, that's your business. Just don't expect me to read what you write.

On the other hand, if you want to have a conversation, offer me the same basic courtesy that you would to anyone else. Pretty simple, really.

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:14 am

Ojustaboo wrote:
I personally am very happy with the keyboard of my Kronos X but the RH3 rates VERY low on piano forums digital piano section for suitability for playing piano anywhere near close to the real thing (they aren't talking about reliability of the original Kronos).

I haven't been aware of this opinion being expressed, for example on Pianoworld. Kawai MP10 and Roland RD-700GX/NX actions would be rated higher, but the RH3 action hasn't been rated "VERY low".

I have often read that the RH3 in the Kronos X represents a big improvement over the (original) Kronos.

Certainly, for acoustic piano, it is important to set the velocity curve to "9" to get a realistic response.

Lawrence

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:23 am

Melodialworks Music wrote: I haven't been aware of this opinion being expressed, for example on Pianoworld. Kawai MP10 and Roland RD-700GX/NX actions would be rated higher, but the RH3 action hasn't been rated "VERY low".

I have often read that the RH3 in the Kronos X represents a big improvement over the (original) Kronos.

The Kronos X is interesting, I have raved about how great mine is and I am happy with it.

However, while I have even spacing and all the notes sound correctly, its far from a perfect keybed and I suspect if it was my first Kronos, I would have debating returning it for repair. As it is, with what I've been through, no chance, it's working so I'm keeping it.

The kronos rattles as though the buttons are resonating. My E2 key is very bouncy and makes a sort of "doing doing doing doing" noise when released quick, the F next to it has a little bounce but isn't as bad.

Just made a recording if it, I had to turn my PC volume up very loud to hear it, but that's just my bad recording, its VERY audible and noticeable when playing even softly. A couple of other keys make noises as though they are hitting cables or bits of plastic.

Not what I'd expect for over £3k

Recording here.

http://youtu.be/A5nQB8G-fNs

Again as I've said before, if my X broke, there's nothing else I would want as a replacement except another one, but the quality of the keybed on an instrument costing this much does leave a lot to be desired.

To link/quote a few comments from piano forums, sorry if this isn't allowed mods, delete as you wish

(none of these are my comments on there)

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... ost2011709

RH3 is complete rubbish .... Although my newer Kronos X has no issues it's still a awful action.

I'm more concerned about dead notes and actual problems than the general view that the RH3 is not the best action available.

I am aware RH3 is not getting good reviews and feedback.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... ost1925858

I'm delighted that Korg has come out with a new version of the Kronos, but am absolutely appalled that they continue to hamstring it with that dreadful, clunky, outdated RH3 action

THe RH3 is indeed a fairly disappointing action however the Kronos itself is now a excellent board

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... 656/3.html

RH3 is really a shame for such a top-of-the line instrument. Don't understand why nobody of the Korg guys figured that out.

I'm still of the opinion that as much as the Kronos offers, and as impressive as particularly the grand piano samples are, why not release a new action? Yamaha has their NW-Stage, Roland has their PHAII/III Ivory Feel, and Kawai has their RM3-Grand Wooden action. The Korg's RH3 isn't a terrible action, but I think with as impressive as the Kronos's pianos are, it deserves a more competitive action.

The Kronos should be the leading synth/workstation in the world, but the RH3 action has torpedoed that. I am certain that the next version of the Kronos will have an all new action - it will ruin the company if they don't. Would be great if they could change the action midway through the Kronos production cycle, but I suspect that's not an easy thing to do.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... %20XF.html

As a Kronos owner I can tell you that I regret purchasing the weighted Kronos. The action is probably the poorest on the market and overall construction is in line with a sub $1k product, not a product costing almost $4k.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... 20SV1.html

Korg desperately needs a new top-of-the-range keybed. The RH3 action was poor on the M3, poor on the SV-1 and is now probably the principal thing holding the Kronos back.

Agree. It feels like mud playing it. Not nearly as responsive as the other competitors. I was disappointed to find out the Kronos uses the same RH3 action (w/aftertouch). It deserved a new improved action.

One thing I can say... The longer I own my Kronos, the more certain I am that the RH3 is a poorly constructed action.

Sure there are a few people in there that say they are happy with it, but they are a minority compared to those that dislike it. I read most threads on the DP section of that forum and just in the past few months there have been far far far more comments than those few I have posted.

I feel I need to stress I'm not trying to knock the Kronos, far from it, this is a thread on what direction the Kronos should take and a lot of people seem to dislike the RH3. I personally like the action.

Dany · Post by **Dany** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:46 pm

danatkorg wrote:This is not an official support forum, and I don't have time to read everything, so here's the scoop: if you want to be rude, that's your business. Just don't expect me to read what you write.

On the other hand, if you want to have a conversation, offer me the same basic courtesy that you would to anyone else. Pretty simple, really.

Isn't it all just a cultural misunderstanding?

Saxifraga
Senior Member

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 263
Location: Berlin, Germany

"Berliners are proud of their dialect actually and have even given it a name: die Berliner Schnauze. The Berliner Schnauze is a mixture of humor, creative expression, and aggressiveness, sometimes offensive to some outsiders and possibly even misunderstood. Berliners have mastered their Schnauze and passed on its unique, comical characteristics from generation to generation.

In a sense, you can compare the ‘Berliner Schnauze” to the NYC slang and rudeness, yet with much deeper historical roots, diplomacy and meaning." Quote from http://blogs.transparent.com/german/berliner-schnauze/

Peace folks!

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:17 pm

Yep, I agree, sounds more like a lost in translation problem than actually being rude.

Its like talking to employees at native instruments or Steinberg, the way they use their language (or the way it translates into English) can come across unintentionally rude. And if your frustrated about something, that's going to be amplified.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:35 pm

I don't see it as a cultural misunderstanding.

Now I have problems with my Kronos that I am not happy with but I don't hijack any thread that Dan posts in to moan on an on about them to him and slag Korg off about how crap their designs are.

And I'm a Londoner and we are rude and disrespectful but we are realistic as well.