RH3 Keybed Information

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

ShaneFF wrote:
Ojustaboo wrote:
Saxifraga wrote:What´s happening with my replacement Kronos 73? The keys are now unevenly spaced. And some keys become virtually longer (f,g and a) keys.
b keys become shorter it seems. wtf
I'm in two minds about the Kronos, I love it and have invested a fair bit in a few libraries and karma software.

But the rattles, bounces etc I get from it, sometimes (not often mind you) I wish I'd bought a motif instead.
The grass is always greener :lol:

if you had a motif you would be saying the same thing about the kronos.
Possibly but I don't think I would.

As I've said, I think the Kronos is the best hardware synth out there but it's the quality of the keybed where I jave doubts.

Being on my third one and rattles etc appearing in the short time Ive owned it, that is my only concern.

I honestly don't have faith in its long term durability and a £3k outlay for a board for me will have to last me at least 10 years.

Still I'm hoping I'm proven totally wrong
ShaneFF
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Post by ShaneFF »

Jeez 10 years is a long time so technology like this too last, would you not consider selling in say 3 years and re investing in a new board?

In 3 years you might get a third of money back, which would figure in a ten year spread....?
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

ShaneFF wrote:

Let´s contain that topic to a place where we can be sure it goes on relativly unnoticed that Korg still sells it´s old/refurbished/repaired crap over and over again until it finds a customer who does not complain.
Do you have proof to back this up, you should also say that its in your opinion that its crap, because I think MOST of us are happy with it.
To a point I agree with Saxifraga.

The amount of people experiencing problems is now very small, but almost if not totally without exception, the people that have reported problems in the past few months have had their boards returned or replaced 3 or 4 times and sometimes problems still not fixed. Which points to Korg sending out either old stock as replacements, or refurbished stock that still have the problem.

A few of us had boards direct from Korg that had the note cutoff problem in recent months. Most of these were supposed to be new.

Someone in the past couple of weeks bought a Korg refurbished one that had the note cutoff problem.

Again the number of people this is happening to is EXTREMELY small but to those people, it does appear that they are in fact getting old, refurbished, repaired crap over and over again

Personally I love the action of the RH3 and do enjoy playing piano on it a lot. I prefer the action to that of the Nord and the Motif

My previous comment in my post above this one, had I not had my first Kronos faulty, my second faulty, repaired and still faulty, then the couple of notes that rattle slightly (and yes I agree most people who hear it would say I'm being very very picky) on my X, I'd just put down to settling in and they may well stop at some point.

But we base our opinions on our own experiences, hence if we've had no problems, the Kronos is the best machine out there and we wish those that constantly moan would shut up, if we had one problem and it was fixed, crap happens, can happen to any product, but if we've had numerous problems and found it hard to get them fixed, then it obviously mares our overall enjoyment of the product.

And sadly if someone asks me my opinion on getting an original Kronos (not the X), due to there still being a few bad boards out there, I simply cannot recommend them getting one unless they want to risk the possibility of having to go through what a VERY SMALL amount of people have gone through in the past few months (often being without their Kronos more than they're with it in the first couple of months of ownership)

When you look at Saxifragas Kronos experience and see how his keys now look on his Kronos,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28467448@N ... 160617088/

is it any wonder he comes across so pissed with Korg?
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

ShaneFF wrote:Jeez 10 years is a long time so technology like this too last, would you not consider selling in say 3 years and re investing in a new board?

In 3 years you might get a third of money back, which would figure in a ten year spread....?
No I wouldn't.

I have a Yamaha keyboard that cost about £300 13 years ago (home keyboard family play about on) that still works 100% perfectly, every synth I've owned (apart from my Trident that died in the 80s and Korg wouldn't help me with the info needed to repair it) has lasted me a long time, and so they should.

That's why you can still buy say a Juno 106, Roland D50, Ensoniq SQ80 or Yamaha DX7 etc that still work perfectly., OK might have to replace a few parts to keep them in pristine condition but if they are looked after properly, there's no reason why they shouldn't last 10 years or more. I've owned all of those except the DX7 and at no point was I ever worried about how long they might last

I also cant work due to long term illness and this was a present from my wife. I spend this sort of money, I expect it to last.

I sold my Triton Extreme 88 to part fund this and that was well over 5 years old, I bought it second hand and it had been gigged, was quite scratched etc, by it's appearance it had obviously been handled quite rough at times.

I had to replace a few of the tact switches and plastic buttons, but once I'd replaced them, apart from the scratches, it was as good as new and the keybed felt a lot more solid and was totally rattle free compared to my Kronos.

And it's the Keybed that concerns me.
ShaneFF
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Post by ShaneFF »

Admittedly if I was in your position I would be really pissed!

None the less Ill stick with my point; if back then you got a motif you would be yearning for a kronos now :wink:
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BobTheDog
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Post by BobTheDog »

They definitely send old stock out, my first replacement for my initial serial 3598 was a 'brand new kronos with new keyboard from Korg" with a serial of 3231 that just so happened to not have had the keyboard fix done when it was chased up with Korg!
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QuiRobinez
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Post by QuiRobinez »

Saxifraga wrote:Uneven spacing (between e and f).
Keys become virtually shorter with time (keybed gets deformed!?)
Have a look:http://www.flickr.com/photos/28467448@N ... 160617088/
:shock:
my kronos was one of the first models in holland where the complete keyboard in the kronos was replaced. I'm still really glad with this solution, the keyboard is perfect with absolutely no problems at all (it has perfect spacing and response).

i feel sorry for you, this would be absolutely unacceptable for me if my kronos was returned this way.
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Davidb
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Post by Davidb »

For those of you who have asked me my input on this subject, here in this topic is a rough description of my experience with four faulty Kronos, replaced one after another, all of them within not consecutive serial numbers:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=80499
Regards.
D.
FlowerP
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Re: Update on repairs

Post by FlowerP »

FlowerP wrote:
FlowerP wrote:1. When and where you had the repair performed
February 2013 in Sweden. EM Nordic did the repair.

2. Which model (73 or 88 )
Kronos 88.

3. Any information you were told about the specific repair made
My K88 had the well known note muting problem caused by "hammer" bounce on soft key depression. This made certain musical phrases impossible to play pianissimo without a few notes cutting off early.

EM Nordic did the standard replacement of the rubber key contacts.

4. The results -- did the fix work?
Yes, after three days of testing, I was unable to provoke note muting.

However, the repair has caused two new faults. First I found that the note-on velocity response was rather uneven from key to key. Looking at velocity data on a MIDI monitor showed that when playing a mf chromatic scale most keys gave values around $40 but some gave consistent values around $58-$60. This makes playing e.g. piano music impossible if good dynamic control is required.

The second fault is even worse. Middle C (C3) retriggers on key release if the key has been pressed hard to activate aftertouch during the sustain phase.

Today I've sent my K88 back to EM Nordic for another repair.
This is really annoying! My Kronos 88 arrived a few days ago from the second repair. This time we unpacked the K88 at the music store to check it out thoroughly. The first thing I noticed was that middle C still retriggered on key release, i.e. exactly as before. Further testing revealed that certain keys still had very uneven velocity response compared to most other keys. So both faults that were supposed to be fixed by the second repair remained, even though the repair shop claimed (by email) that another contact strip exchange had been made and that their testing indicated that the keybed was working as it should!

This time I've clearly demonstrated the faults to personnel at my local music store, and will let them handle further contacts with the repair shop.
I'm happy to report that my keybed problems have been resolved. EM Nordic exchanged the entire keybed. Now there is no note muting, no double triggering and the velocity response is very even across the keyboard. My Kronos serial number is 3176.
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Saxifraga
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Problem solved!

Post by Saxifraga »

I solved the problem radically by having my Kronos 73 converted into a Physis Piano H1.
It sounds fantastic and the keybed is on par with the Steinway my daugther plays at her teachers home.

I hope I will be able to buy some day a Kronos 61 or its successor because it´s the best sampler I have ever heard and will miss all the sounds QR and others have programmed. I will miss the HD-1, AL-1 and MOD-7 sounds and the possibility to route my iPad directly through the Kronos effects section.

In the end the main feature I wanted was a very good keybed and the streamed German Grand Sampel. In that regard the Physis simulation blows even the migthy Kronos out of the water.
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jimknopf
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Post by jimknopf »

The Physis pianos sound good, with nice variety.
Most of the rest sounds really dreadful, especially the EPs and FM-sounds.

Enjoy your new piano sounds and the keybed and have fun!
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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Saxifraga
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Post by Saxifraga »

jimknopf wrote:The Physis pianos sound good, with nice variety.
Most of the rest sounds really dreadful, especially the EPs and FM-sounds.
I hope not! It will arrive saturday. I was not that fond of the standard Kronos EPs. Maybe what is dreadful for one is heaven for others. But I have never played real EPs. So I can only hope the simulations are not that bad or at least I will like them. ;)
Enjoy your new piano sounds and the keybed and have fun!
Thanks. You too! :)
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

I just had a look at it, wooden keys, very nice.

Hope you have fun with it
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Post by Davidb »

Fore those interested, more of the keybed issues here:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=80789
Regards.
D.
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Saxifraga
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Post by Saxifraga »

Ojustaboo wrote:I just had a look at it, wooden keys, very nice.

Hope you have fun with it
I have! My Kronos was exchanged today against a Physis H1. I have to admit that it was not easy to part with the Kronos. I would have liked to keep both. Maybe I will have a chance to get my hands on a cheap Kronos 61 in the near future. It would make sense if no one buys my sounds. Else it would mean 200,- € loss. :(

The Physis is build like a tank but also 27 kg heavy. The keybed works perfectly but is not as even as I thought. So maybe I paniked to much about those keys protruding and recessed from the others on my Kronos. :oops:

Physis sounds like heaven, behaves like a real grand and has also some very good sounding sample based horn, string, organ and synth (OB12) sounds. The handling is very intuitive and easy. But it´s more like a stage piano and surely no workstation.

Regarding the Piano sounds I think the Physis is more classics friendly. Much better articulation and nuance to it. So for my daugther it´s much better and she trained with much more fun on it than with my Kronos. :)

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