Restart again with OS 3.1

[AntonySharmman]

I am not experiencing any problems with data from many previous Korg models right back to the i-series
- and I use them today.

All official KorgPa styles & files , or to be specific , files with proper internal code/meta data that have not been externally edited or being
corrupted while migrating from various storage media , would be always compatible and this won't change.

As you know , loading procedure of a SET in load.All format was never validated in partial contents , I think that this will change and every
file that will be suspected to lead to system issues , will be excluded from loading as a "not a Pa file" !
Initially this method will prevent and exclude system issues caused by custom resources !

Next OS update will probably show us the degree of system protection from such issues ...

[korg1]

BR


there not much new in os3

I personally think that even only the changes on violin/woodwind/reed/sax/brass instruments is enough to update to v3

As i stated before,restarts issues might happen on v3 and v3.01 even with ONLY factory resources loaded,and i already told you two ways of replicate the problem.

On v3.1 i haven't found a way to replicate the problem yet.

I perform with the keyboard 6days/week, so i spend a lot of time testing how it reacts in realtime use.

What i actually noticed is that maybe v3 and v3.1 have differences on Global settings but i am not quite sure yet.
For now,i don't have any restart issues for a long time,and that's something good i suppose.

If it keeps it like this till November,then i guess the problem is the Global settings itself.

[BR]

BR


there not much new in os3

This is not my statement/wording.
I think you accidentally quoted duby2 opinion.

Anyway since I didn't update yet to any V3 version, I don't know what exactly is included in this V3 version
and cannot comment on its content.
Good for you that you did not have restarting problem.
if Korg add more choices for display color, I will definitely give a try to next update.

[korg1]

Sorry BR, yeap i quoted duby2 'post.

Overall v.3 makes keyboard sound greater in anyway,only cons are the restart and sample management issues and some other bugs.....

[BR]

Sorry BR, yeap i quoted duby2 'post.

Overall v.3 makes keyboard sound greater in anyway,only cons are the restart and sample management issues and some other bugs.....

No problem...
Thanks

[duby2]

the new os3 still use the same old samples , so if it sound better, it might be new patch for the brass or piano ... i did a save all on the new os3 ...( and had to go back to OS 2.2 , I can see the screen and restart not for me ) i could load in the (maybe ) banks of sound to see ...what would make it sound better . new setting on a patch.

just wondering ??

[korg1]

Yeap, patch programing is one for sure,especially on wind / sax/brass instruments,they sound more natural now,legato on most of winds is ok now ,but also overall keyboard sounds greater in my opinion.

That's the main reason i can't go back to v.2.2

What still is missing are some good Master compressor/limiter at MAXX mastering effects so we can easy have all our styles at the same level ,and a surround Pan and Eq curve prespective for style edit mode instead of the 3band eq and panpot,as well as a surround effect or at least a better stereo expander if assume this is what it is at MAXX section.

I don't want to say anything for the 80-90's note editor for now,that's something no one at Korg or Yamaha or any other company cares about.
That's bad if you think that this should be the heart of the machine.How to build styles on the fly easy if you don't have a good note/event editor?

(I remember cubase VST5.01r fitted on a single 1.33mb disk)....MTC too then...

[Korghelper]

Having all your styles at the same volume by crushing to death with the compressor those that are too loud is not the solution! If you have styles that are too loud you simply need to go in and edit them quieter…

The more I read this thread, the more I am convinced it is hardware. So few are having the problem, and nothing about their use of data is in common.

But think of it this way… Have you ever had a computer that never crashed? And yet, you still use them…. Technology has its risks. I am amazed that those unwilling to upgrade are so unwilling to work their arranger at home as hard as they can to gain confidence in the operating system on a job! Really?! You can’t spare an hour or two for a few days you are off to gain the benefits of the new OS?

[korg1]

Having all your styles at the same volume by crushing to death with the compressor those that are too loud is not the solution! If you have styles that are too loud you simply need to go in and edit them quieter…

I do edit my styles so they are close enough and i can switch between styles creating medleys without noticeable changes at volumes or dynamics,but it is not all about volume or gain always....

Sometimes you want that live harder sound instead of the polished studio sound.
Acoustic is something difficult to archive always and involves numerous things and parameters.
It's not always about loudness,volume,gain etc,usually it's about frequencies and arrangement,but some good mastering plugins should exist in my opinion like comp/limiter ,and they should exist in songbook too for midi or mp3 entries...

The more I read this thread, the more I am convinced it is hardware. So few are having the problem, and nothing about their use of data is in common.

I think you haven't read enough or more this thread or some others about restart problems.
If it was a hardware issue,it should happen almost every day.
Maybe it's not even a software issue rather than a memory management or processor's ability to handle more....no one can tell for sure.
I provided two ways of replicate the restart issue on V3.01 and V3.0,and one suggestion for not having the same issue on v.3.1....that worked for me or didn't happen by luck to have the same issue after that,i guess i will have to wait for a longtime to see if i will deal with the same issue in the near future.
In my opinion, i will....when next Os update will come out...for now,it's ok!!!

But think of it this way… Have you ever had a computer that never crashed? And yet, you still use them…. Technology has its risks

Can't agree with that,sorry.
If i pay 4000 for a computer,i would expect it not to crash down without a reason.
Let's say pa4x is our new computer.You just open it from factory state and you find out that it freezes....it stacks, or it restarts without even having install any software or accessed internet yet....and you just wait for the software Os's update to solve all these bugs,while computers from other companies work great without a single bug.

Does this seams logical to you?

Cause for me,the logical way for all this would be a real hardware chip or processor instead of this cheap flash-nand rom/ram,if we want to talk about keyboards that cost 1000-4000 euro.

And i will say it once again :
You might never have any issue with your computer if the only use is for playing solitaire...keep that

[Korghelper]

You've been able to replicate a restart, but has anyone else? Same steps? If you are loading custom resources, that's a likely source of an issue.

But have you provided a simple step by step that crashes EVERYONE'S PA4x?

If you can't get everyone to crash with the same steps, as I said... Maybe hardware, maybe custom resources. I actually have read every single post with the restart issue. All of them. And nobody, to my knowledge has yet posted a set of steps that crashes everybody's 3.1 OS.

What still is missing are some good Master compressor/limiter at MAXX mastering effects so we can easy have all our styles at the same level

Sorry, but this is what you said. Perhaps it is not what you meant. As Maxx is global, it's hardly convenient for leveling different styles, and already works well for changing the overall sound of the PA4x.

But if you need frequencies changed for different sounds, wouldn't going in and altering each Part's EQ be the correct way? Mastering is going to affect everything equally. Your idea of Maxx presets tied to Songbook is a good one, though. But while you wait for Korg to do it (or not do it!), perhaps you can do different EQ/mixes for each song and have a category in the Songbook to sort by Aggressive/Mellow/Medium overall sound. Plus, there's no guarantee, for medley purposes, that Maxx can switch glitch free, is there?

As to inconsistent restart results, actually, that's EXACTLY the right kind of symptom for a hardware issue... Stressed components may work one time but not another. Temperature, voltage, humidity, handling or vibration, all of these things can contribute towards hardware issues, and may not be the same every time you boot.

By the way, congratulations for finding a computer that never crashed unless it had a reason! The problem is, finding the reason...

And that's what we are trying to do here. Give us a reproducible set of steps that crashes a stock PA4x with factory resources EVERY TIME. Then we are closer to a solution...

[Aripearlmusic]

A master limiter/compressor would be useless unless you use the same sounds and kits in every beat and are have already compressed the transients in your lead sounds. There is no such thing as a compressor or limiter that works on every mix and since you for sure have different mixes for musical variety it would never work.
I've seen sets from over 20 well known programmers all with dozens of errors throughout the set in every category due to lazy work and sloppy editing as well as a complete disregard for basic midi functions, mixing and the keyboard features.

This is why im convinced that the keyboard crashing not only would have to do with custom resources but with improper effects stacking even on factory resources and faulty power regulation. That would explain why everyone who knows the keyboard very well and checks their power regularly doesn't have this problem

[AntonySharmman]

As first I want to clarify that PaSeries PSU is a Switching Mode Power Supply (SMPS) , it works from 80 up to 400V and do not suffer by any
fluctuations, sparkles , over/under voltage , only from net power interruption of over 0.3 seconds where UPS will prevent from restarting !
Second , no effect settings , signal over-driving and any bad Waves EQ settings will ever cause a system crash , only heavy distortion ,
according to core architecture , but if PCG file code is faulty mostly users edited and migrated from older PaSeries then anything can happen.

Now , I suspect a reason of restarts , clearly based on custom "bad" resources after examination of a specific customer's Pa4X !
- He had a very bad SET migrated from Pa800 with looped time sliced wav & missing MS samples.
In this SET , whole STY banks were disappearing , KBD sets were changing randomly plus occasionally restart events under OS v3.1
- I did a factory restore (Media/Utility) but this was not enough to delete some "internal" remnants of this SET (don't ask how I know that) ,
so I give up this function from now on !
- Only a real resources & system memory full format can certificate that any loaded file code injection will be deleted !
Therefore IMO , people that you still face restart issues after Media/Factory Restore , load back OS v.2 in "format disk" mode and then load OS v.3.1
without loading any external resources that might caused system malfunction and the called "restart issue" will disappear !
I did it for above Pa4X and also suggested it to another user that emailed me and issue do not exist anymore under a week of hard tests by them.

I have never tried OS v3.0 - 3.01 that I really don't care and I definitely doubt that you can never find this issue in a new Pa4X OS v3.1 out of box !
As I had mentioned , we're expecting in next OS update those bad files will be excluded from loading in Pa4X.

Hope this helps

[Korghelper]

That’s good news if it can be pinpointed to bad resources.

That’s one thing I always appreciated about Kurzweil’s... how well they tracked samples and how easy it was for the user to expunge specific sets without disturbing others. I don’t think I can recall ever being able to crash it!

The earlier posts about Maxx didn’t say anything about it crashing the OS, he was just introducing an irrelevant wish list idea into the thread..! But believe me, I have heard it being overused, my client has some hearing loss and tends to crank it up a bit high, LOL

Let’s hope Korg can quickly get a handle on tracking bad resources and put this issue to bed. It’s not good to read about users too scared to upgrade despite how few people have had a problem...

EDIT... Perhaps all this makes a good case for Korg to develop a computer front end for working with the sampler? One thing that computers do well is error correct and micromanage resource tracking, and help the user visualize errors and redundant resources. It’s getting a bit obvious that the PA4X’s processor is a bit underpowered, perhaps its time to use a computer to aid in setting up sample sets and organizing resources?

[AntonySharmman]

Don't worry , specific ARM processor can directly compete Kronos 2 Atom D2550 dual core CPU in sampler application , in full duty
CPU never exceeds the 60% of max power !
The actual problem there is the outdated USB 2 protocol communication with HD/SSD & other Media.

Error checking requires code programming 'cause PaSeries OS verifies files in surface level only , so when this will be done , all incompatible
files with disturbed code , will be prevented from loading in Pa4X.

[korg1]

- As i made clear on previous posts, i provided two ways of replicating the restart issue on versions 3.01 and 3.00 .

Haven't found a way to replicate the problem on 3.1 though,cause it happens radomly....(last two times were 1)after power on and navigated to songbook,and 2) after load a single songbook entry from a v2.2 songbook list).

-While on v2.2 i had another issue with a single style,which i was ready to mail to korg,but then version v3 came out which fixed the bug for that style.
What was happening: style was only midi information,no samples .Style was playing normal for some bars,then distortion was coming out with no reason,and after some bars it stopped again.
No controllers or filters on style tracks,if you think this could cause it...
After searching it a bit, i found that it was the styles's master effects that might be responsible for this.So i turned them off too and resaved the style.
The style was keeping doing this distortion for some bars on intro 1.
The style was created originally on my pa800,and played fine for3 years.
When switched to pa4x it was playing ok in the beginning.After version 2 ,it was the only style out of 1200 that was causing this issue.

The distortion was sounding like it was an amount of electricity passing the style somehow,however it never happened again for that or any other style after updated on version3.
So,who can guarantee or say that our files are safe,or that even good resources might or not turn to bad resources after an update?

Not to mention that the restart issue also happened with factory resources only ,first time after factory restore and updated from v2.2 to v3 ,but also later when i formated again everything,switched even to ssd disk and loaded again v3.01 or v3.1....so,that's the reason i don't believe it has to do with bad resources.
For me, global settings,including MAXX or songbook is causing this.
Songbook might be outdated in programming while the rest of Os is updated,just a suspicion !!!