Korg Forums

In regards to Notator/Creator... my own thoughts are..

Notator is the equiv in the sequencer world to the Minimoog in the synth world..

If you look at the specs of the Mini, compared to the modern synths.. it's pretty pathetic in comparison, yet the Minimoog is still one of the most sought after (and emulated) "sound" makers out there..

The same applies, imho, to Notator/Creator.. It looks and works in a very simple and old fashioned manner compared to the modern Sequencers available today and yet, somehow Notator is still one of the most enjoyable and easy to use, yet powerful, sequencers once you spend some 'hands on' time with it.. (and it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to work it out either!)

Maybe it is it's simplicity in use that makes it so attractive and well remembered by it's users.. It took no time at all to learn, lay down tracks, re-arrange and/or edit them... and it was as stable as hell.. No real issues worth mentioning.. it just did what it was supposed to do and did it well. Can't say that about most if not all of the modern sequencer packages... which seem to think that more (and resultantly more convoluted) is better.. which personally I think is incorrect.. This is why I find myself using Ableton and Traktion more and more within my studio.. Both are simplier to use than Cubase/Logic/Cakewalk.. and they do not slow down or at times nulify, the abiliity of the composer to lay down tracks quick and fast and allow the editing of such tracks to be done simply and effectively without having to go through screen after screen of parameters (or layers) to achieve what should be a very simple task indeed.

Cubase/Logic etc.. have their place of course.. They allow an amazing level of detail to be edited.. and sounds created in manners that none of us could have imagined 20 years ago.. but to me, this is more like programming music.. which is fine and good.. (and I do enjoy that aspect of music creation too!) rather than writing and recording music.... Both 'camps' have their own niche's.. and software to match.. but both 'camps' are different in terms of how you achieve the end results a musician is looking for.

So anyhow.. to sum up my feelings on this little discussion.. I guess it's another case of "the sum of it's parts adds up to more that the individual parts suggest".... Just like the Mini.. despite the way it looks and 'seems' to work.. Notator/Creator has that certain something that isn't defined by the spec list... it just 'does'! No other sequencer (and I have used several of them extensively.. Cubase for example.. from way back in the days of T-12 and then Pro 24) has ever 'grabbed' me and 'held' me like Notator/Creator.. despite the years passing..

Cheers..

Nigel

Mag66 wrote:This is why I find myself using Ableton and Traktion more and more within my studio.. Both are simplier to use than Cubase/Logic/Cakewalk.. and they do not slow down or at times nulify, the abiliity of the composer to lay down tracks quick and fast and allow the editing of such tracks to be done simply and effectively without having to go through screen after screen of parameters (or layers) to achieve what should be a very simple task indeed

Good call ... I am very much digging Live for it's simplicity and single screen approach. I just set it to full screen mode and off I go. Once I've got all MIDI and Audio clips composed/recorded I export all those into Logic and then really go into detail there. It's made an immeasurable difference to how much I enjoy what I do and how successful I am. I've made twelve pieces of music this way in the last year and I am really happy with this way of working. I also used my Electribe a lot and I have started using the Oasys sequencer too for the very immediate experience of just making music right on the instrument without any context switches. Unfortunately there have been a couple of hiccups with the O so I stopped using the seq but what little I did do I found productive/creative.

Daz.

I think the concept of - sadly discontinued - Ensoniq sequencers are better. But Korg is not bad at all. I have created sophisticated arrangements on a Triton LE!, and finally I'm very happy with the results (not with the way I did ).

Usability depends on the arranging/recording style of a musician. Korg still sells instruments - they are usable for many. I also guess nowadays a lot of people are not using the built-in Korg sequencers much *for recording*.

Therefore I don't think Korg will completely change the sequencer. The development may cost too much. Some legal questions may come in (copying Ensoniq ). But I hope they improve it, including some new commands or features.

OJ brings up a good point about Korg being an Instrument manufacturer. This reinforces the notion for them to arrange a deal with a sequencer company to compliment their instrument, instead of trying to do it themselves; why recreate a wheel thats still going to be sub-par.

I now have my laptop hovering over my OASYS88 and its really not the best way to operate. As I mentioned before, I'm now set up exactly like I was with my M1. Things like volume levels getting changed by this or that are coming up again, and I'm pretty much back to mananging equipment connectivity issues. Like, trying to sync my vocal track on the OASYS to the sequence on the laptop; goddam rediculous that I'm facing decade-old issues for this amount of money.

I kick myself for not sitting down at the store and trying to make a song there; it would've saved me a fortune.

sasori wrote:OJ brings up a good point about Korg being an Instrument manufacturer. This reinforces the notion for them to arrange a deal with a sequencer company to compliment their instrument, instead of trying to do it themselves; why recreate a wheel thats still going to be sub-par.

I now have my laptop hovering over my OASYS88 and its really not the best way to operate. As I mentioned before, I'm now set up exactly like I was with my M1. Things like volume levels getting changed by this or that are coming up again, and I'm pretty much back to mananging equipment connectivity issues. Like, trying to sync my vocal track on the OASYS to the sequence on the laptop; goddam rediculous that I'm facing decade-old issues for this amount of money.

I kick myself for not sitting down at the store and trying to make a song there; it would've saved me a fortune.

While I agree with you.. completely as far as the O needs a real sequencer package built in......as an aside, I have been using a workaround which for me, seems to be, at least better than working with either a stand-alone seq or with the built in seq alone.. (Though somewhat slower of course..) and that is.. I have been working on a song using Cubase.. which when I had finished all the basic track recording and editing.. I then uploaded the data to the Korg's seq to add samples and vocal tracks afterwards.. (and do final midi mixing etc..) and in doing so I have almost completely got rid of timing issues and sync probs of the kind you mentioned..

Just a suggestion in case it slipped past you..

ricky recordo wrote:Forgive me please for mentioning Emagic's Creator/Notator package again. I ran it on a simple Atari 1040ST. In fact, I'd probably buy an OASYS if Notator was the sequencer engine... it's that good.

?? first time I listen to that name
Creator/Notator?

Can you run it on a PC, with Win XP ?

thanks

mozartella wrote:

ricky recordo wrote:Forgive me please for mentioning Emagic's Creator/Notator package again. I ran it on a simple Atari 1040ST. In fact, I'd probably buy an OASYS if Notator was the sequencer engine... it's that good.

?? first time I listen to that name
Creator/Notator?

Can you run it on a PC, with Win XP ?

thanks

No, sorry.... It only runs on an old Atari....

Cheers..

Nigel

There was actually a version of Notator that was designed to run under Mac OS7 but it's impossible to find an existing copy. I emailed emagic support im Germany but they just bounced me a generic response referring me to Apple Logic.

There must still be a copy out there somewhere

back in the day, these proggys were written for their target processor, some, or at least components of them, in machine language.

In the Atari's case, this would be either a 6502 or 65816. Porting that would be a pain in the butt. Plus, the code would be communicating directly to the port of the midi device.

So, the internals would be scrapped and only the design concepts would be used to create a brand new program.

Also, considering that these types of programs are now designed to sequence audio, not just midi; that complicates things even further in adopting the original design concept.

Putting out a sequencer that only did MIDI, these days, is probably not going to be able to carry a pricetag worth going through the effort; at least for a large company.

sasori wrote:back in the day, these proggys were written for their target processor, some, or at least components of them, in machine language.

In the Atari's case, this would be either a 6502 or 65816. Porting that would be a pain in the butt. Plus, the code would be communicating directly to the port of the midi device.

So, the internals would be scrapped and only the design concepts would be used to create a brand new program.

Very true indeed though, I did once see a very early version of Creator running on a PC via an Atari Emu.. ( I believe it was the Radium hacked copy of Creator.. allowing it to run without a dongle) but to be honest, it wasn't very stable and it only supported a very limited range of midi devices.. (Creative Labs SB16 I think) Also, it had issues with the then OS (Windows 95) and it's particular weird way of pausing/freezing up for short periods of time causing midi timing havoc! Since then., I do not believe anyone has managed to successfully emulated an Atari (or the program's dongle) well enough for any further versions of Notator/Creator to run on them

ricky recordo wrote:There was actually a version of Notator that was designed to run under Mac OS7 but it's impossible to find an existing copy. I emailed emagic support im Germany but they just bounced me a generic response referring me to Apple Logic.

There must still be a copy out there somewhere

Never heard of the Mac version of Creator / Notator.. though they did release a version called Notator Logic.. which was somewhat different to the original programs on the Atari....

Link for review of Notator Logic v1.73 follows;

http://www.hybridproductions.org/dave/w ... logic.html

....so that's news to me.. I've emailed a friend of mine who is a Mac software "collector" of sorts.. He has a library of almost everything that was released for the Mac until around 2001.. I'll see if he has a version of it.. plus presumably, a dongle to go with it.. much like the Atari version.

Cheers..

Nigel[/url]

Yeah Nigel, that's the one I was thinking of. Thanks for the archaeoLOGICal dig - and the link!

I was the Distributor for Emagic when they broke away from C-Lab... actually Ensoniq WAS the distributor, I just worked there.

We were still selling Notator and Creator Atari while they finished V1.0 of Notator Logic. It was a completely new Program, but of course written by the same guys. It was VERY different from Notator/Creator and was a hard sell in the beginning since it was far from a completed application. But it came along quickly since Gerhard and Chris are such prolific and quality programmers.

But there never was a Mac version of the true Notator/Creator. They WERE incredible applications and very realtime and flexible.

Jerry

Thanks for the confirmation Jerry....

I just wish they would release the original Atari Creator/Notator into the public domain.. but as they has said previously, they will not do so for undisclosed reasons..

Shame...

Nigel

Thanks for the clarification, Jerry. Now I've gotta start collecting 1040STEs!

BTW anyone still using Creator/Notator can get copies of all the original disks here if needed:

http://www.notator.org/html/software.html

Bump.
Another big sequencer lament thread.