Oasys owners ... Kronos really better or worth it?

[Hedegaard]

Are you his boyfriend?

I can die now. I have seen it all:

somebody going moralistic and homophobic... on Akos!

That takes the cake.



PS: whoever criciticized me for separating sentences with paragraph marks, please try reading McRocs's posts. See what I mean?

Yeah haha! I laughed at that one too, for the very same reasons.

Akos, what have you done? You made another forumer commit "suicide" and left here!
(But am happy about this)

And someone please tell me about this:
What is the connection between "finding money under a tree" and Irish people?
I just don't get this joke/truism

[TonyGen]

I learnt long ago never get too precious with your gear.

As has been stated it's about opinion. Regardless of what you perceive the discontinuation statement to imply , if you have been Playing for many years and bought many pieces of equipment you must surely see common sense.

Although I hate to admit it, I have probably been playing longer than you (or indeed most people on this forum). I'm certainly not bragging you understand

In that time I have bought umpteen keyboards and seen them overshadowed by the next model...and often been happy to buy the newer version without question.

But only once have I been foolish enough to pay way over the odds for a keyboard on the basis of it being future proof only to then see support dropped and a newer / cheaper / greater capability model introduced.

I have no problem with you being happy with that situation. Forgive me if I am not. I can say absolutely that it won't happen to me again.

[Davidb]

It hardly looks like they dropped the Oasys development but actually did continue it if only to produce a more accessible priced unit,not good customer relations to me,they could have continued to develop it as a cross platform machine giving the best of both worlds to Oasys owners too.

Fantastically well spotted here, Kontrol 49.

This is IMHO, the key point of all the matter, and this is the major gripe and the reason why OASYS users are pissed off.

Korg claimed the wont keep developing the O because of the economical bad situation, blah,blah, blah... And it was not true at all, they kept doing it, but only to be able to release the results in form of another more affordable package that the original OASYS, to include all its technology, synth engines, screen interface , as well as few more features that *could* have been acomodated to te O as well.

Futhermore, the mere fact that the OASYS II... err, sorry, I mean Kronos, can read perfeclty OASYS PCG and SNG files, but the O cannot read kronos files the other way around is a detail that speaks for Korg, its lack of interest in everything regarding the OASYS and its users, and it sets everything in place.
A place the O community will not forget.

People have to realize that these facts are genuine, and are disgusting, very, to the limit for a comunity of users who had spent 7 to 8 Grands (*plus* expansions fees) in an equipment that has been anbadoned as an unfinished product (i.e. EFx missing from original specs, etc) only to see 2 years later their same instrument, kept developed and named as a new one, availible for 1/3 of the street price they paid, and containing it all and yet some of the upgrades requested for the original product so many times.

Some of you say " C´mon, Get over it".
Be honest an try to walk in the OASYS user´s shoes for a moment.

Left aside the price paid issue ...
Tell me:
How would you feel about all that?
Is it good customer relations?
Is it a smart commercial policy?

Most of the OASYS community is ranting.
...Let them rant.

If nothing more.... Some empathy, please,
At least here in the OASYS side of the forum!

[SoulBe]

People have to realize that these facts are genuine, and are disgusting, very, to the limit for a comunity of users who had spent 7 to 8 Grands (*plus* expansions fees) in an equipment that has been anbadoned as an unfinished product (i.e. EFx missing from original specs, etc) only to see 2 years later their same instrument, kept developed and named as a new one, availible for 1/3 of the street price they paid, and containing it all and yet some of the upgrades requested for the original product so many times.

+1 and so it is Korg that were raising again the old debates.

BtW I don´t think that O customers are a market for Kronos; as I am gigging with my O I may get one Kronos on the second hand market when my O hardware had died and Kronos prices are much lower to keep my sounds playable.

And regarding workstations ... I also bought through the years many different hardware synth gear but for me the point has come to go the softsynth way to combine with my O in the future as a result of all this.

regards
SoulBe

[Kevin Nolan]

Thanks for defending me against McRos - those posts hurt. Even though they are racist, I understand that Ireland in under the spotlight for dubious reasons so I understand the strong emotion. Nevertheless, they hurt.

Just let me say this one thing in response and please let's not debate it as it's off topic but I feel I need to defend those comments once - I, like 99% of Irish people, am a reasonable hard working, ordinary person, not looking to fleece the world. We accept the follies of recent times - I've taken a 33% net pay cut - and you'll get no gripe from me. But I see myself first and foremost a European - I've worked for the past 10 years on the ESA Integral mission as a software developer - free gratis (but getting a part time PhD out of it), which involves nights and weekends developing code and bug fixing (I'm a physics lecturer with a heavy teaching load so software and research (and music) are done on nights, weekends and holidays). It's my passion along with music. But I have felt nothing but pride of being an active contributor to a European project and working along people from many European countries - and I know most Irish people feel equally connected to Europe. It would be easy of me to blame bankers and politicians but I won't - but that does make me any worse (or better) than any other reasonable person from any other country, nor give any member of this forum the right to attack my character or my country in the way that was done here. I was physically sickened by the comments - and I'm not trying to wear the martyr hat in this.

Ths second thing I'll say out straight is - I have absolutely no connection with Korg.

Back on topic - I clearly have touched the nerves of others. So let me give you my perspective - which will again be contravertial and may upset - and then I'll shut up on the matter. This is what I firmly believe - on principle!

1. I own two OASYS and spend a fortune on them. I was bitterly disappointed when Korg ended OASYS early - especially when seeing the M3 sequencer updates. However, I genuinely harbour no grudge towards Korg - because every synthesizer in existence - even others that offered future proofing and didn't deliver - gets cancelled after a few years. It's part of the economics of synthesizers - if they don't sell the company has to rap it up, no matter what they previously promised. It's the only way they can survive. So - I personally believe that anyone who bought an OASYS expecting more than a few years upgrades was naive. That's what I believe.

2. OASYS was superbly upgraded for about 3-1/2 years. Four new EXi's, one EXs, numerous OS upgrades, new Karma features, hundreds of free programs and combis and that stunning set of 750 Effects Presets that radically transform the internal Effects. This, to me, has left me with a jaw-dropping feature set which, 6 years after its launch is essentially still twice the raw power of any competitor's instrument and essentially neck-and-neck with the Kronos (the differences are nuance IMO). So - Korg delivered spectacularly well, during the life time of OASYS, in my opinion.

3. Anyone who bought OASYS for what you would get in the future and not for its existing feature set, in my opinion, bought it for the wrong reasons. So I believe you are as much flawed in your reasoning as Korg are in ending it prematurely.

4. It is a perpetual surprise to me that while many cry foul-play on Korg for not upgrading OASYs, there is almost no active engagement of the existing feature set - at least there's absolutely no discussion on this forum with regard to experimenting with OASYS's existing synthesizer engines, other systems, or work practices. So I am confused and baffled with what people want as an upgrade (please don't give the list - we all know it); when we do not use the existing features. I'm as guilty on this - there are so many features it's impossible to get to them. So while this is a completely subjective point on my part - I find ti difficult to sympathies with the general call for upgrades for upgrades sake when essentially none of the current feature set is engaged.

Why I've attacked these threads is because, and I'll say it again:

- OASYS is a two year discontinued instrument. That's a long time to be resurrecting old debates. Even if you are new here, the general principle on forums is that you search for old threads on an issue before posting a new one on the same topic. that has beeen completely abandoned in this regard.

- There are too many of them and they are dragging the tone of the forum down. All forums work best and try to maintain a reasonable stance - but those perpetually cry foul are too lob sided and yuo do not have the right, on any forum to continue to complain on this, over and over. I understand that people feel they nned to vent on this - not to the extent that this forum has had to endure on it over the past 2+ years - it's too bloody much!


But in the final analysis I'll say it again - you, of your own free will, bought and instrument. Korg did not force you. They did not even lie to you - they intended to upgrade OASYS for years to come - but they did precisely what every other synthesizer company did because they had to - they supported their instrument as long as they could (not perfectly but very well). If they followed your logic and continued to commit human resources to a product not selling (and did that to all existing non-selling or discontinued instruments) they would simply go out of business. You know this. This is a business - not a charity - and they did what they had to for up-front, genuine business reasons. So they cancelled OASYS in precisely the same manner as every other synthesizer in history has been cancelled. If you can't accept that then you're learning a hard lesson that will never, ever change - the precarious nature of the synth business. But it does NOT make Korg a worse company than any other company, and it does NOT give you the right to place disproportionate blame on them, just because you were naive enough to believe hype in a brochure.

Finally, OASYS means open architecture. It does NOT mean endless upgrades. These two are perpetually confused on this forum. Open architecture means an approach to design. It is what allowed the OASYS to run on Linux and on a single Intel processor. It is what allowed OASYS to offer unprecedented polyphony - 6 years ago - far out-performing every other instrument on the planet (and still today). It is what enabled the upgrade to LAC-1, STR-1 and MOD-7 among others - unprecedented synthesizer upgrade depth on a hardware platform; and it is what allowed for unprecedented interconnectivity between the synthesizer engines, the massive internal effects and the Karma engine, for example. So you got the full promise of Open Architecture from OS version 1.0.1, let alone all of the other upgrades. Open Architecuter is an approach - a design philosophy - which every OASYS owner - yes paying through the teeth for - benefited from from the day your received the instrument and that was not available on any other instrument on the planet. You cannot blame Korg for poor sales and hence less upgrades than you feel you deserve; and you cannot blame Korg for not enticing 3rd party support if there numbers did not support such a realisation (and lack of 3rd party support is NOT due to some sort of conspiracy theory 'closed KORG' mentality). If OASYS had sold 50,000 units and not 3000 units, you can be confident that some 3rd party company would have wanted to develop for it and Korg would have been receptive to it for pure monitory reasons - the simple fact of the matter is that OASYS simply did not sell.

So there you have my opinion. I think most of the arguments presentedhere are completely lob sided and are not based in the financial reality of synthesizer sales. Korg are not blameless. They are too silent for my liking (but which company isn't?). They upset me as much as they did you - but - they are NOT worse that other companies. If you do not want to buy Korg in the future that's your choice, but do not come on this forum and offer false arguments to the effect that Korg are worse than other companies - they are not. They are far from perfect, but IMO they continue to be innovative very well in what is a very, very precarious business - and I'll live with that.

Lastly - attack my arguments all you want and in any way you want - I'm only delighted to stand corrected on any point - but please do not attack me or my country (I'm angry with my country too but I'm still entitled to have a sense of national pride and duty - and for Europe too - and to feel hurt if people attack them).


I'll say no more on it.

Kevin.

[SoulBe]

Dear Kevin,

off topic - you have to defend for nothing, forget McRos or whatever his name was .....

and very very warm and special greetings from Germany to our European brothers in Ireland.

best regards

[cello]

@ Kevin - forgive me not quoting your post, but it is quite a long one!

Just want to say, once again you've made an honest and noble post and series of comments, for which you have have my respect and admiration.

I will not sully it with a rebuttle.

I too would like to see the overall tone of the OASYS section raised to the higher place it once was. The Korg OASYS is a masterpiece and always will be, but no matter personal feelings, I think what is obvious is this OASYS section here IS our support. We're on our own now I think.

So whilst my views have not changed - I think we all owe it to Sharp and to other OASYS owners/users to try and restore the tone of this massively important resource. Let's face it, the first place Kronos users are going to come to once it's released is the OASYS section!

It was funny, all things considered - I'm working on a new piece and have been playing all day (just taken a small break and I'll be going back shortly ) - but as I was playing a track on my O, the thought occurred to me, "I'm playing the Kronos before it's released!" This wasn't a negative - it was about how much people are going to enjoy it; they have no idea what they're getting!

As per your suggestion in an earlier post, I think it would be good to ask Sharp to create a thread for those O users who want to make their views known about recent events. They can post there and nowhere else. (Makes it easier for Korg staff to find such posts).

All other threads should be for exchanging, learning, sharing and enjoying everything that is the mighty - and original - OASYS.

[Kontrol49]

I think vindictive attacks towards Kevin and his nationality were uncalled for and not what most of us stand for,so for that I feel ashamed that there are people in here that have to be so negative and angry,We may not all agree but ones things for sure,there seems to be a degree of respect from most people in here towards others.

After all we are all here for one common interest so what does it matter where you come from or your nationality,its sad that some have to vent there frustrations with Korg and aim it at individuals whom they don't know personally,I relish the fact we have a forum like this,when I was first using Korg instruments in the early 90s I wish I had access to a large user base of knowledge like this,whether I agree with Kevin or other views matter not when I recognise the great contribution in here that most of them make 95% of the time.

Would it not be more feasible or sensible to make a sticky thread dedicated to the topic of the Oasys being dropped or at least a thread whereby we could all keep to the subject and air our views good or bad in one single thread

That way the forum would not become a constant flow of pointless threads about it and ruin other Oasys topics by drifting them onto the subject,I think just about most Oasys threads seem to segue towards the issue.

[Hedegaard]

Dear Kevin,

off topic - you have to defend for nothing, forget McRos or whatever his name was .....

and very very warm and special greetings from Germany to our European brothers in Ireland.

best regards

+1
And from Denmark too......

[vEddY]

Korg are not blameless. They are too silent for my liking (but which company isn't?). They upset me as much as they did you - but - they are NOT worse that other companies. If you do not want to buy Korg in the future that's your choice, but do not come on this forum and offer false arguments to the effect that Korg are worse than other companies - they are not. They are far from perfect, but IMO they continue to be innovative very well in what is a very, very precarious business - and I'll live with that.

I'll say no more on it.

Kev,

God only knows that you and I can have our fair share of different opinions, as we did over the past years... And we've always - at least I think so - managed to keep that to a reasonable, and civil debate. I'm pretty sure you can say that about most of the people here as well. So don't let yourself be hurt by someone who's just being mean.

A bit offtopic for me - Korgforums and their owner and a "mother side-company", Irish acts are.... Irish, for a crying outloud. I've traveled around the world and back, met quite a few Irish people and I only have nice things to say about them. Just take Sharp for example. Enough said.

I really think that this is a type of political-racial-whatever discussion that needs to be stopped and burned in flames, deleted and forbidden. We're here to discuss products, past or present or future, announced or unanounnced, and help each other with advices and music and whatever. I absolutely dislike this kind of discourse when "someone's ass becomes his mouth". I'm sure you get the metaphor.

Just relax and keep doing your thing. I'm sure users who know what the heck they're talking about and why they're here appericiate your presence.

BTW, if I could offer one piece of information on "manufacturers being opened or closed to users and buyers"... Just check xtremesystems forum. This is the central place for overclockers from all over the world, with questions that far exceed normal level of knowledge of computer hardware. But there's this one thing - every single hardware manufacturer's people are there, all the time. Not because someone from "up above" tells them to, but because this is an elite website where people discuss stuff related to hardware and they personally want to be involved. Many of my friends from the hardware industry are there all the time, talking to their customers and offering them a level of support that you can't dream about when you're being treated in these KORG ways. Which is a company policy and a calculated move, not something that "just so happens".

There's one question that some OASYS owners have asked here - to be told "straight in the face" in one simple sentence - that SW-wise, OASYS is dead. Why should that be a problem? Kronos is - however you put this - an upgrade on OASYS software, and to me this seems like a reasonable question.

You know what, when you're a leader in something, that means responsibility. That means that you can also take it to the chin when you screw up, which KORG did, in a number of ways in the last couple of years - OASYS, M3 which didn't sell all that well either (funnily enough - I told that to people from KORG UK on a meeting, straight in the face when they introduced it - "iKorg is not going to do well"), and then went back with OASYS II-meets-KRONOS concept. This is a nice mess. Intel screwed up a couple of times - big time. But they took it "like a man", from everyone - and everyone were kicking them in the face, said "OK, we screwed up and we're gonna do better in the future", and they did it. To the letter. KORG as a company doesn't understand that. They've been a leader in this industry for what - 10-15-20 years - and still haven't really figured out what that position means. OASYS owners treatment proves that rather eloquently - and I'm talking about communication, not product support per se. Don't even get me started on Daz, his years and years of efforts, for free, to deliver something, without a shred of support from KORG in terms of basic information. He had to brute-force everything by himself. That's just freakin' insane. In my world, when you have a developer that wants to do something for you and your buyers, for free, you help him out as if he/she is a last drop of water on the palm of your hands. For example, this is something that - in IT - NVIDIA does supremely well, and AMD poops on almost every day. And they're surprised why they're just not as successful and as innovative as others are.

BTW, it's obvious I'm talking about companies that are 10, 50, 100 and many more times the size of KORG. I really don't want to be rude at all, but it's a valid comparison.

Actually, this is exactly what pisses me off now for a number of years. Korgforums is an unique website with a chock full of new, medium, and advanced-level users. In many ways, it's an elite website, where people can find an incredible amount of information about KORG keyboards. And others, and other subjects. Which - in my world - translates to a _perfect_ oportunity to discuss things with people that are current, past or future user base. A huge oportunity wasted, especially with the "what we don't like talking about, we won't discuss" policy. And a very nice way to alienate people.

[Sharp]

Hi Guys.
Just so you know, I banned that guy earlier today.

He's a sad and troubled idiot you all might remember. He used to go by the name MauroR amongst a few others. Remember the liar who went on about his account being hacked, and it wasn't really him who abused everyone?. Well.....that's the guy. I see he's not changed either.

He is one of the very few who has a life ban.

Regards
Sharp.

[cello]

Hi Guys.
Just so you know, I banned that guy earlier today.

He's a sad and troubled idiot you all might remember. He used to go by the name MauroR amongst a few others. Remember the liar who went on about his account being hacked, and it wasn't really him who abused everyone?. Well.....that's the guy. I see he's not changed either.

He is one of the very few who has a life ban.

Regards
Sharp.

Bravo, Sharp; Bravo

[McHale]

Can I ask a stupid question about the OASYS?

It's not a secret that the OASYS is discontinued. Sales are certainly discontinued. Manufacturing is discontinued. But did they say that OS or software is discontinued? I don't remember seeing that any place. Isn't it possible that an OS upgrade could happen now that KRONOS development is ongoing and it's a very close relative?

[Dany]

We always should fight against racism and nationalism! It always begins with words! Mass murder, eliminism and genocide always starts with just words!!! Music is the medicine and the universal language to heal and to bring us together...

...But it does NOT make Korg a worse company than any other company, and it does NOT give you the right to place disproportionate blame on them, just because you were naive enough to believe hype in a brochure.

Kevin, I am glad to know, that I am not the only one on this forum, who was crazy enough to buy TWO Oasys!

I have to admit that when I've purchased my first Oasys for the full price in 2008, I was fully aware of the fact, that the probability that there won't be any further updates in the coming future is close to 100% and I was proven right. I didn't of course expect anything from Korg, when I later got my second Oasys. I took my final decision to purchase the Oasys BECAUSE of all the Exi's like Mod-7 had already been introduced. If you are following the synth market for decades, you will know exactly, that you should always buy an intrument for just what it is at the moment. So I was not one of those "naive" buyers who believed the hyped Korg PR, to use your word.

But all of this didn't prevent me from having a small Oasys "crisis" after the Kronos news, because to pay 12'000 Swiss Francs (= 9'400 Euros = 8'000 Pounds) for the new Oasys in the late summer of 2008, was a crazy and huge amount of money for me. So therefore I've expected some sign from Korg, just to show to us, that they did not forget about our huge investment and the trust we gave them in their brand and product.

I am sure that people from Korg USA R&D know exactly, what would be possible regarding Oasys updates taken from Kronos and which effort it would cost in time and money. There might be some people at Korg USA R&D who would like to see some updates for the Oasys, like Set-List and better Seq resolution. But without Korg Inc.Japan's support, nothing will ever happen. And I am quite sure, that Korg Inc. Japan has absolutely NO intentions to do anything further for the Oasys. They also removed the Oasys a long time ago from their website.

So I am afraid that Kevin is right to the point that the Oasys project is over and finished forever, because Korg Inc. Japan has decided to do so (and if we should be proven to be wrong it would be a huge and welcomed surprise).

We should dry our tears, forget about the money (even if it still hurts..) and enjoy this great and beautiful instrument called Oasys, which is still a new Instrument for every single day, because you can explore and create infinite new sounds until your last day...

-

[kandarv]

... Let's face it, the first place Kronos users are going to come to once it's released is the OASYS section!

It was funny, all things considered - I'm working on a new piece and have been playing all day (just taken a small break and I'll be going back shortly ) - but as I was playing a track on my O, the thought occurred to me, "I'm playing the Kronos before it's released!" This wasn't a negative - it was about how much people are going to enjoy it; they have no idea what they're getting!
...

It's Kronos not Oasys, so new custumers will not be looking at a Oasys threads.

...
It's not a secret that the OASYS is discontinued. ... But did they say that OS or software is discontinued? I don't remember seeing that any place. Isn't it possible that an OS upgrade could happen now that KRONOS development is ongoing and it's a very close relative?

What part of "discontinued" is not clear?

I always wanted an Oasys, since it's release, but it was always out of reach for me $8,000 USD was, simple put, a lot of money for a workstation.

But since the release of the Kronos I've read a lot of complaining from Oasys owners that seems like they regret, in some fashion, what they have spent in the Oasys. They regret it so much that they, usually kidnap every single thread of the Kronos to say "Korg did that, didn't do this, you have to be thankful 'cause of us you have that...." You where the lucky ones who have it, so why are you complaining so much? So Korg promised this and that, so what? I'm grateful that Korg is still alive and developing new products. I love Korg stuff and Yamaha's and DSI's and Doepfer's and Clavia's and Access', (not Roland's thought , lol no I do too) and Novation's etc.

So you bought a $8,000.00 keyboard thinking that it was going to be the last thing you'll ever bought/need in your lifetime, are you serious? It's like thinking you'll buy a Jaguar XJ12 and never needing another car.

Yes I know I'm new to this forum, but I'm a Korg fan since the M1, I save a lot of money (I live in Mexico) for that keyboard and made me very happy +20 years ago. I've since moved along.

Please stop hijacking Kronos threads (I know this one is in a Oasys room). This one, for example, was asking if it's worth it against Oasys. A valid question 'cause I still want an Oasys and maybe now that the price drop a little, making it "affordable" if I may say so, I'll buy one.

So what do you think, get an old Oasys or wait for a Kronos?