AL-1 vs Virus question...?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:10 pm

jimknopf wrote:My impression is that real longtime Access Virus owners know very well what they have, and neither magnifiy this music making tool into myth making, nor are ignorant about what it can do and really is good for - like some reviewers who obviously can't handle it and didn't even manage to use the power of total integration (sorry, EvilDragon, couldn't resist after reading your linked "review" ).

"Doesn't need" and "didn't manage" are two completely different things. Jexus doesn't need total integration, so why boast about it? The more important part is where he says "I only wish that in a $3000 synth one would expect and get a glitch-free arpeggiator, glitch-free LFOs, glitch-free envelopes (yes, I do have the latest OS) and a 3rd mod envelope."

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:36 pm

Apart from the fact that I'm working mostly glitchfree here (though I know problems from older OS versions and know there are still problems with some environments and hosts), it says quite something about a user from my view if he ignores the total integration features, which for example allow convenient recording of automation, and without which you only scratch the surface of the TI recording functionality.

It's ok if he doesn't like the basic sound: we all have different tastes - though hardly any other synth has proven to work as excellent in as many different modern recording contexts as the Virus has, and he perhaps should have thought of that for a minute before starting his premature comments.

But what I really dislike about this "review" is that it is full of malevolent and in part really clueless remarks, which in their sum make me think that he doesn't know too well what he is talking about - at least I can't follow his evaluation at all.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Not really.

The guy simply doesn't need TI, as he's not using DAWs in the way you and I most likely do. He's old school. Note that he wasn't completely negative in the review, he stated pros and cons from his POV, and that's all ok (he does that with every synth he reviews - check out his other reviews as well). And his comments are never premature, because he actually spends some months with a synth before he reviews one. You may disagree with what he says, but that just emphasises the subjectivity of yourself as a Virus owner.

I simply agree a lot with the guy, as I can share the same unfascination with the Virus sound myself. There are other points where I disagree with him as far as his other reviews are concerned. But ubiquotuously, the guy definitely has synthesis chops, and know-how to pull some amazingly crazy and evocative stuff out of pretty much everything - no matter what the price tag or the age of the synth is. Checking out his youtube channel is a great way to see what he's all about. You may dislike it, but you can't dispute the talent.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Checked his channel - and see that you're right: he seems to be a very creative synth user.

I still sharply disagree about his Access TI evaluation, but so what?
It's all good, as long as people are really living their thing - which he obviously does.

And back to music ...

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:46 pm

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:54 pm

jimknopf wrote: Ron, concerning the reverb of the TI: it sounds well, but is pretty basic. Don't you think the Kronos effect section offers much better reverbs? For my ears, the Lyle Mays Piano on board of the Kronos for example showcases the best reverb available on synths and workstations so far.

Hi Jim,

Of course the quality Reverb is a subjective thing. What I may like, you may not agree with. Its sort of like many things in music.....subject to taste.

But...from my perspective, I look at reverb as having two distinct functions in my music. 1. The conventional use of creating a sonic space which instruments and a mix is placed "in". 2. As a sound design tool. In this regard, a good Reverb can act almost as an additional oscillator or noise source, adding a distinct and discrete sound source in a patch.

As it relates to sonic space.... Kronos has outstanding clean reverb, in particular the O-verb. But I find that the Virus Reverb acts as a better sound design tool, which is exactly what I want in a synthesizer where my primary function is to *design* sounds and patches. I think the Virus verb has a thick deep color, almost Eventide-like sound-scaping, especially at longer decay times.

Definitely the Kronos has a more diverse effects section, and I particularly like the real time effects modulation capabilities under Kronos. But there are patches I have made with Virus, where the reverb is an essential component in the overall patch design, which I don't think I could replicate under Kronos/Oasys.

One of the first things I like to do when I get a new synth is to isolate the large hall reverb, raise its decay/size parameter to max, and hit a few percussion samples or sounds through it to see its color and depth, and how it decays. Virus is ultra smooth, thick, and has almost an infinite decay setting at max, with virtually no ring modulation or metallic cycling in decay. O-Verb is ultra clean, and it decays cleanly....but far less color. Love them both....but for strictly synthesizer patch programming, I prefer Virus as having much more creative potential in a patch.

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:03 pm

Morshu · Post by **Morshu** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:49 pm

you guys might not agree, but i think the Access Virus TI2 very much is the god of synths, it blows everyth....NVM just kidding Its not, there is only one god of synths and that is the ALESIS ANDROMEDA

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:30 pm

Sina172 wrote: The one area where I truly disagree is the reverbs on the KRONOS vs. the Virus.

The O-Verb is the ONLY reverb I use. It is SO smooth, and so spacious that compared to some of the BEST Reverb processors (Think Bricasti, Lexicon 960L, and TC Electronics M6000), it sounds almost as good!

I don't see the Virus stack up to that level. Compare the SmoothHall Reverb on KRONOS and the Virus's Reverb, maybe. But I can't justy using the SmoothHall Reverb, when I have access to O-Verb.

Kind of like having access to a BMW 325i when you have access BMW 760Li.

Virus Reverbs are more like the 5-Series BMW's. It's not a 7, but still amazing in sound.

Sina

I hear you Sina.....for a traditional reverb application, the O-verb IS at Lexicon pro quality level, if tweaked correctly. However....its not an Eventide style of verb......meaning its not as much of a sound design tool as it is a spacial processor. For synth programming and patch design, I use a verb as an extra "oscillator" frequently... for this I stick with out board Eventide, which has a signature which is very distinct and unique amongst pro verb processors. Virus has some of these qualities in its verb.....O-verb is too clean for this application......in my opinion.

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:28 pm

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:04 pm

Sina172 wrote:But I find it somewhat limited. Not in features, but sonically its limited, IMO.

Well, you're wrong there. Nothing new about that.

Morten'J · Post by **Morten'J** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:08 pm

Sina172 wrote:
RonF wrote:
Sina172 wrote: The one area where I truly disagree is the reverbs on the KRONOS vs. the Virus.

The O-Verb is the ONLY reverb I use. It is SO smooth, and so spacious that compared to some of the BEST Reverb processors (Think Bricasti, Lexicon 960L, and TC Electronics M6000), it sounds almost as good!

I don't see the Virus stack up to that level. Compare the SmoothHall Reverb on KRONOS and the Virus's Reverb, maybe. But I can't justy using the SmoothHall Reverb, when I have access to O-Verb.

Kind of like having access to a BMW 325i when you have access BMW 760Li.

Virus Reverbs are more like the 5-Series BMW's. It's not a 7, but still amazing in sound.

Sina
I hear you Sina.....for a traditional reverb application, the O-verb IS at Lexicon pro quality level, if tweaked correctly. However....its not an Eventide style of verb......meaning its not as much of a sound design tool as it is a spacial processor. For synth programming and patch design, I use a verb as an extra "oscillator" frequently... for this I stick with out board Eventide, which has a signature which is very distinct and unique amongst pro verb processors. Virus has some of these qualities in its verb.....O-verb is too clean for this application......in my opinion.
You have a good point here.

The O-Verb is one of the cleanest sounding reverbs I've ever heard. But if you want a little "dirt" in your sound, it would take the dirt out because of how clean it is.

Eventide makes some CRAZY processors! They do have a very unique sound, and I totally get where your coming from now. And if I was to compare the Virus's effects to anything, it would definitely be Eventide, IMO.

I have to be honest, though:

Where I prefer the Virus's effects to the KRONOS is delay effects. Specifically BPM Delays. These can be a sub-oscillator in and of themselves, when applied the right way and would blend in SO well as if it was a part of the sound. I use the arps, the same way. And I almost ALWAYS use the Chord Mode and have it arpeggiate the chords I play.

When I combine this with some of the KRONOS combi's I have created, utilizing KARMA, WOW! I can get some CRAZY textures that I wouldn't be able to get with KRONOS alone.

And that's what I LOVE that about the Virus! The sound with the arps and effects, combined with the KRONOS really puts you in a place of possibilities you can't get anywhere else. IMO.

@ Morshu,

The Andremeda is a COMPLETELY different animal in the sense that it is a TRUE Analog Synth that happens to have digital controllers. So when you turn a knob, you see the values change on the display. It's got a VERY unique, analogue, technoish sound to it. But I find it somewhat limited. Not in features, but sonically its limited, IMO.

The Virus, while not as feature packed has a FAR greater sonic potential to the point where I just end up using the Virus, and when I need the analogue sound for a bassline, lead, or maybe a polysynth, that's when I go to the Andromeda.

Other than that, I prefer the Virus if I want a good synth to add-on to my KRONOS.

Sina

Also the build quality of Andromeda ,I find the knobs very bad ,I sold my Andromeda for a Virus TI Keyboard ,I did try to get a Elka Synthex but cost alot.

Look forward to Korg Kronos61

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:25 am

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:51 am

Bought in 2001 in Italy for 2,250,000 lire (that's €1160, or $1600).

Not for sale

Morten'J · Post by **Morten'J** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:28 am

EXer wrote:

Bought in 2001 in Italy for 2,250,000 lire (that's €1160, or $1600).

Not for sale

The one I was buying few years ago was 4100 euro.
Now I am happy with Synthix VST (Elka Synthex) and use the money on Korg Kronos