Korg Pa4X complaints

[Bartjuhx3]

You can talk technical which makes sense and nonsense all day I could do the same but what you say does not match with your timing sorry but hey I don't mind if you know better than good luck.

Wow that’s really a mature answer...

Congratulations!!!

[Aripearlmusic]

You can talk technical which makes sense and nonsense all day I could do the same but what you say does not match with your timing sorry but hey I don't mind if you know better than good luck.

You can come visit my studio and bring a stop watch if you like.

[kleant]

propably you do I don't really mind however for me 10 minutes to create a full pro style from scratch or even convert it from templates or whatever does not sound serious promising results but as I said above good for you if you do it that way

[Aripearlmusic]

I start with a mix template which basically is an empty style that already has a basic mix for the sounds i would use including effects routing and EQ. Then step record the bread and butter (bass, pads, then hihats, randomize velocity then overdub and remove duplicates then do kick and snare) add piano and or EP then copy all to variation 2-4. Thats about 2 minute tops. Then go to variation 2 and add guitar and raise the over velocity of the drums a touch and add basic cymbals. Copy 2 to 3 and quantize the hihats closer to a 4 on the floor and raise the cymbals a touch and raise the kick and snare on variation 3. Raise dynamics of the piano EP and guitar, open the cutoff of the bass a bit, variation 4 gets half time quantize and step record the bass. Copy all variations to their fills and drop the measure length on the fills to 1. Add toms and replace crashes. Copy variation 1 to intro 2 and swap the snare with a clap and remove bass from the first 4 bars. Add cymbals and copy to intro 1 and remove kick and snare from intro 1. 10 minutes start to finish

[kleant]

At this speed you can beat even the fastest computer on the planet seriously try adding some more minutes to each step will give you even better results it is just a friendly suggestion you don't have to accept or defend it. (If you through some live loops on the mix will give you even better result but i guess you don't like them so still just a suggestion).

I have already tried to replicate your method and for me personally does not work but that does not mean that should not work for you.

[Aripearlmusic]

The only styles that take longer for me are ones with sounds and kits that i haven't mixed before and watched them play out with an EQ Spectral Analyzer. It used to take me several hour to program and mix just like it did for sampling. Technically i can even program faster than that if i use a midi template in my DAW with markers to load into a premixed style template. That could take 5 minutes if ive already listened to the midis beforehand. The biggest time saver is knowing what you want the finished style to sound like and programming in the most efficient order to get that sound. There is no comparison between using the internal sampler vs the right set of software samplers that have the entire software written specifically for the highest quality and efficiency. Why work harder than you have to to get the same results. I dont use loops because i can do the same mix processing techniques to the sound and then to the style as i would in a DAW using a fraction of the samples and have no tempo or sound quality limitations and get the same sound as the loop and most of the time even better. As far as having the top drummers and musicians play, most of today's music would be a waste to have Dave Weckl, Oz Noy, Jordan Rudess, and Chick Corea and many other greats play on because it really is too simple for them to shine. I do still use their fantastic midi and sample libraries, mix templates, and amp sim cab modelling presets just like i use stuff from Martin Garrix, Avicii, kshmr, Bruno Mars, Brooks etc...

[Korghelper]

First of all, to Sieben I would simply say that perhaps he is getting confused by the English use of ‘loop’ to mean BOTH the basic looping of a sound so the sample can be extended past it’s normal length (as in a trumpet sample) and the use of ‘loop’ as in a recording of a groove or sound that extends for a few bars at a time. I am STRICTLY only speaking here about the use of rhythmic samples several bars long... to my knowledge here, on this thread, NO-ONE has complained about a shortage of sample slots simply for sounds. You are muddying the waters here. The whole point is about using timesliced grooves.

Secondly, the suggestion that I should have to haul around a laptop, and deal with synchronization, audio interfaces, latency and automatic selection of the loops I need for each Songbook entry is absurd, and it’s obvious you haven’t really thought about the practical limitations of your suggestion. All well and good if you’re in a studio (where it’s unlikely you’ll use an arranger in the first place if doing any serious commercial work), but utterly impractical on stage for a busy pro. Look, I know you’ve dug your heels in on this issue, but perhaps its time to step back and realize that the NEED for using groove loops is a legitimate one (the support for the idea far outnumbers yours and Ari’s sole opposition).

As to Ari, the challenge remains. We’re done talking. Put up and post any ‘programmed’ groove that remotely convinces anyone they are listening to a loop of REAL players or a loop of deep synth stuff that could come from a library of modular synth weirdness and we’ll all start taking this stuff seriously.

Until then....

(BTW, the minute I heard you say the words ‘step program’ I realized we aren’t on the same page! If you think for one minute you can step program a great player’s technique, let alone a whole ensemble of great players’ technique, you really can’t be serious)

[Aripearlmusic]

Haha you can't step record 2 to 4 measures of anyone's technique? If it's less than 16 measures it makes much more sense to sample and step record then change velocity and length after to match the original or simply convert the audio into midi (which can be done many ways in most DAWs) for the timing and then sample. I charge over 2k for just my sounds and another 2k for my beats because i have no competition when it comes to pushing the 4x to the limit.

[BR]

...I charge over 2k for just my sounds and another 2k for my beats because i have no competition when it comes to pushing the 4x to the limit.

Interesting,
I've never heard or paid such amount of money for sounds or styles for using in Pa series. It's almost the price of two used Pa4X.
Can you provide some demos of your jobs here in the forum?

[duby2]

They say if it sounds too good to be true it probably is
Yes I would like to see some demos on YouTube and how is done we can all learn so much,
thanks to you all in Korg land for the help…
Or
do we have an excuse not to do it
up put up or shut up..
I cannot do it ….I’m not that good but I would like to see how it all done..
I want to learn, teach us all…
And thanks for helping us all..

[Aripearlmusic]

Im not registered as a vendor here so i gotta find out about the rules before posting demos. If they let then yeah i will post demos but and snippets of some techniques i use but most of the work is done in my head so until we get that Vulcan mind-meld interface it will stay in my head and that of my students. All i can say is i have the same access to the same learning materials available to the public for free and thats where i learned everything i know in sampling and programming which ive been practicing and teaching myself since shortly before age 7 when i finished building my first PC.

[siebenhirter]

Fri Mar 06, 2020 ...Bottom line, the user should not have to be limited arbitrarily by sample slots. If Korg are working on a new arranger, no doubt with even more RAM, they owe it to the users to provide the tools to fully use all that RAM, and hundreds of thousands of sample addresses is the very first thing we need.

Mon Mar 16, 2020 .... NO-ONE has complained about a shortage of sample slots simply for sounds ...

Funny, How Time Slips Away (Glenn Campbell, Willie Nelson). Even if you seem to quickly forget what you're complaining about or what are your needs; but to be honest - think we still are in the same thread "Korg Pa4X complaints".

Mon Mar 16, 2020.... getting confused by the English use of 'loop' to mean BOTH the basic looping of a sound ... and the use of ‘loop’ as in a recording of a groove or sound that extends for a few bars at a time .... The whole point is about using timesliced grooves ...the NEED for using groove loops is a legitimate one ...

Maybe you get confused here, but we still are talking about Pa-Keboards. Sample slots in Pa4x only refer to samples of sounds (in pcg-files) and it is not possible to use rhythmic samples or groove loops because only timesliced one-shot-samples exists (each one in a separate slot).

Does not look like you have ever dealt with the sample tool of a Pa-keyboard - so believe it or not, look to manuals of Pa-Keyboards and you will find the whole point of timeslice function in Pa4x is to create MIDI Grooves. It is possible importing that MIDI Groove (no recorded Audio groove) - containinig a sequence of note events triggering single percussive samples - to the percussive track of a Style.

.. I realized we aren’t on the same page!...

.... that is right - but it yours to realize that so late!

We did not talk about great player's technique, but about Pa4x and that is simple sample technique allowing to split audio samples into sound samples for Styles MIDI loop - but at least now you should have understood that.

Your ridiculous and cynical comments ( muddying the waters here, dugged heels in on this issue, its time to step back to realize ?? outnumbers yours sole opposition.. etc) are dispensable - better try to understand what we are talking here about and please remain factual.

.. I am STRICTLY only speaking here about the use of rhythmic samples several bars long..

That technique Pa4x never offered, so do not complain "user should not have to be limited arbitrarily by sample slots" - it could not offer a reasonable solution for this, even if the number of sample slots for the timesliced one-shot samples of Pa4x is increased.

[kleant]

I did not want to write again and I thought to give some claims or timing techniques described above the benefit of a doubt but I will say as follows in general because I have some knowledge and experience on buying and selling profesional user sets protected from Korg on usb, memory cards and other various os methods or even unprotected paid ones and in my 20 years of experience with korg arranger owner since pa80 I have never-ever heard or seen a 4k price for any set and in my honest opinion its ridiculous for any set no matter how professional it is to have that price tag private or not.

None of the above it's important to this topic or even the slots limitations which I'm personally interested about, so I think it's time for all of us to take a step back and let go of personal egos I have said it above people who like will still use timesliced loops and people who don't like will not use does not matter anymore.

[Aripearlmusic]

I know a few guys who charge 5k for their set which is about 50% loops and not even custom made loops just free stuff they found on the net and the large amount of errors you get when loading their sets is astonishing. The higher price for mine and their set is partially due to having to explain basic loading and saving procedures to the quote on quote pros who have not bothered to open the manual and how to unzip a file to load which is just plain sad how so many people can't follow simple directions to the point of turning a 5 minute 3 step process into 3 or 4 hours of infuriating tech support and psychotherapy every time they decide to screw it up.

[Korghelper]

Maybe it’s time to go back and look at the thread title...?

If you want to start a thread titled ‘Loops suck!’ or ‘Complaints about loop users’, you can go and hang out in an environment where the two of you will be able to legitimately steer the conversation.

I’m tired of reading this braggadocio. Anyone that’s making 2k (what, centavos? Yen? Pennies?!) a set has got better things to do than spend all his time arguing with arranger players (and enough sense to not antagonize potential clients!). Plenty of people linking to their work and playing on this site. Don’t hide behind that lame vendor BS. I’m not asking where I can BUY any of your programming. I just want to hear some, and marvel over your incredible talent...