If Korg .....

vEddY · Post by **vEddY** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:42 pm

Hedegaard wrote: As a side note: I feel that all previous customers, from the Trinity,Triton, Prophecy, M3, M50 e.t.c were all screwed for money. Their synths are based off the Oasys.
I.e. delay the release of the Oasys so you can get more sales for 'weaker' machines, instead of investing in the future and release synths that have the best technology available at the time.
Theres always a conflict between profit and quality it seems.

I really wouldn't say that that's true, man. Trinity and - for example - Z1 are based on the original OASYS, yes. But these are completely different products aimed for a different market. Yamaha and Roland - again, for example - have the same approach - something for the workstation market, something for the VA market, something for this, something for that.. That's completely ok if you ask me. That's the way a lot of other industries work, as well, not only music industry.

And more to the point, Trinity and Z1 really, really kick ass. I still have two Trinitys and a Z1 and they just blow me away with the sound they produce. There is no profit-quality conflict there, at all. Which means that (and I knew this when I bought my first Trinity) they were ahead of their time in many ways - big time. Which again - sounds pretty darn close to the truth

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:44 pm

iksrazal wrote:I agree. If you look at the near universal praise and arguably loyaty for Access from the people that actually bought a Virus, versus what some of Korg's oldest and most loyal customers are saying here, I think there is indeed a lesson to be learned here.

Absolutely I can't believe all the new stuff that keeps coming from them. Hats off to them !

There is a difference though. Access only sell that one product line, so they have a slightly different reality to Korg with multiple product lines.

Daz.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:32 pm

Hedegaard wrote:As a side note: I feel that all previous customers, from the Trinity,Triton, Prophecy, M3, M50 e.t.c were all screwed for money. Their synths are based off the Oasys.

Let's first be clear about the difference between the original DSP-based OASYS keyboard, which was developed and ultimately not released in the 1990s, and the Pentium-based OASYS released in 2005. The two systems are really quite different.

The Prophecy used some limited variations of algorithms from the original OASYS product, along with different stuff. The Z1 was similar.

The Trinity and Triton had no relation to the oasys, outside of the Prophecy and MOSS/Z1 add-in boards.

The M50 had no relation at all.

The M3 is tangentially related to the new OASYS, but more in the opposite direction: the basic parts of the HD-1 were based on the chip designed for the M3.

So, as to your conclusion:

Hedegaard wrote:I.e. delay the release of the Oasys so you can get more sales for 'weaker' machines, instead of investing in the future and release synths that have the best technology available at the time.

I'm not sure that I follow this conclusion. Among other things, those other, less expensive synths were designed by different teams, at different times, and sold at remarkably different prices. There is no conspiracy here.

- Dan

Davidb · Post by **Davidb** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:14 am

Hedegaard wrote:
How much would it have cost for Korg to be honest?
"We hope to support it for at least 5 years"
"Oasys has the possibility for extra EXf, but nothing is planned for that as of yet"
"Development has started for EXi and you will hear more when its completed" e.t.c
Keep the customer clued in on the future.

Their honesty cost them a customer - me.....sadly.

Hi Hedegaard.

Sadly, I´m on the same boat you are, so are others.
Those who dont post to express themselves, possibly because they dont see the point to insist anymore. ( I can tell you I Know more than just a few of those I´m talking aobut)

And I´m afraid all this wrong approach regarding the OASYS could cost Korg more costumers than those from the actual OASYS user base, we can suspect.

The whole Workstation market and their prospective buyers have been able to witness all this situation in a way or another, and they now have some conclusions and perceptions to take about Korg´s policy and about the value of this kind of "Open Ended" products in the future, as Daz and others rightly pointed out; that they hadnt befeore the OASYS were released-

Hedegaard · Post by **Hedegaard** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:14 am

Thanks for the replies.
Yeah Daz, I'll keep it more "civil" (as I usually do

)

This was the first time I had written on the subject, usually I just read what everyone else was writing on the subject of their disappointments e.t.c and I didn't debate it.

However, I just felt left behind in the dust now, I wanted that EXf

In Denmark, consumers are very well protected, for example if you buy a product and the sales hype dosen't live up to the actual quality of the product, you can either get a discount, or your money back for up to 2 years after the sale.
Now, I don't want to deliver back my Oasys (will always keep it I hope)

Dan, thanks for etching out the differences of the machines and from your explanation, it makes sense.

I was missing/hoping for some words about the EXf, was this ever in development? What can be said about this at all?

UCanDream · Post by **UCanDream** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:41 am

Well...

...This stuff all makes for some interesting reading. There are a lot of facts, erroneous statements, and plenty of opinions interlaced here and it isn't really too difficult to make a distinction as to what is what. I have learned a lot belonging to this forum. It is quite useful, insightful, and extremely well moderated. Kudos Sharp and Daz. And with Korg's own people throwing in their expertise is great to have. The occassional drama, i.e., owner of the stolen Oasys (with it's $50K reward and nearly 50 Tritons in his studio) and the like get a giggle out of some of us.

In any case, I do go along with vEddy's thought of being objective. If I were to take a walk thru my studio and closey analyze every synth I own I could come up with a pretty good assortment of complaints. But there is also a good set of reasons I own each of them...their strengths. That is also why I bought the Oasys. And it remains the overall strongest synth in my studio. Those of you that use or have used Mac or P.C. based sequencing software might laugh at how much I like the Oasys sequencer. But before I bought the Korg all of my stuff was sequenced on my Ensoniq SD-1. LOL, sad isn't it? I don't even have a computer in my studio. I know that must be a sin!

I'll sum up my pointless contribution with this: I acquired my Oasys quite by chance. I had already ordered a 76 weighted-key Open Labs Neko at musicians friend. It had to be backordered. So I waited...and when it didn't arrive when expected I made a phone call to my sales guy. That call led to the knowledge of a longer than anticipated backorder. THEN, when the second expected arrival date came and went I got on the phone with the manufacturer. Then back to the music store, then back to the manufacturer. Then my order was lost. That added to the delay. My last call to Open Labs was scornful but with a great deal of strained diplomacy. In other words, I had to actually TRY and be polite.... and I was. But I cancelled the "lost order" and respectfully assured the Open Labs guy I would never do business with their company. So I moved on to choice number 2. And that was the Korg Oasys. I haven't ever regretted the way things turned out. I am pretty sure that I have the superior machine...overall. The Oasys has raised the bar on all of my recordings and the delay in my CD release is due to reworking all of my stuff so it sounds as good as the most recent stuff done on the Oasys. So, despite any complaints I have about the Oasys it remains the best synth I have ever played. The nature of my complaints have always had only to do with the fact that it's full development was never realized. Small case in point: What is that frigging "Function" Button doing on my Oasys? Is there anything I could do to make it light up? Is it even wired to ANYthing in there? Why wasn't it properly labeled? It should be the "Nothing" Button. Anyhoo, my money was well spent and I am getting good use out of Korg's flagship synthesizer. In the future, though, Korg's clever ads wont ever convince me to buy anything that isn't already in the box...or anything at all for that matter.

Regards.
UCanDream

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:12 am

UCanDream wrote:I acquired my Oasys quite by chance. I had already ordered a 76 weighted-key Open Labs Neko at musicians friend. It had to be backordered. So I waited...and when it didn't arrive when expected I made a phone call to my sales guy.

Similar story, here. The OASYS gave me severe G.A.S. when it was announced, but when I saw the price, I decided not to get it. Instead, I bought the Triton Extreme and put my order in for a Virus TI.

For months and months, Access delayed the TI release and would not comment on it. Meanwhile, I started getting caught up in all the OASYS debates at Sweetwater, Harmony Central and then found this forum. Dan and Jerry were very visible and providing answers to most questions. I kept studying the OASYS. I played it on 3 different occasions and fell in love with the sound.

The TI was still held up, so I called the Sweetwater salesman and asked if the money I paid for the Virus could be applied to an OASYS. He did it and I just bought the darn thing. I figured that I could always go back and get a TI (which I did, 2 years later), but the opportunity to get an OASYS was much more limited.

Of course, you all know how I feel about it, so I won't repeat that. It was an accident purchase, though.

Hedegaard · Post by **Hedegaard** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:36 am

UCanDream, I read another post a while ago about the Function button:
"A non-functioning Function button"
That made me laugh!

Mike, Before I purchased my Oasys, I often visited the Korg page for the Oasys and some of the sales text was:
"Its built for people like you, the dedicated musician" or something to that effect. And then the ad would roll with different comments from different users and then the name "Mike Conway" came up and with your comments about the Oasys.
And I remember thinking, "Who the hell is this Mike Conway? Can't be a good musician, since I've never heard of this guy before"
And only later did I discover, Korg had taken normal, breathing human beings and not unnatural-out of touch-superstars to promote the Oasys.

Needless to say, my purchase wasn't by accident, it was deliberate planning for a few years and I never heard it, or played on it, until the day I unpacked it out of the box.
But no regrets here either

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:04 am

Hedegaard wrote:I remember thinking, "Who the hell is this Mike Conway? Can't be a good musician, since I've never heard of this guy before"
And only later did I discover, Korg had taken normal, breathing human beings and not unnatural-out of touch-superstars to promote the Oasys.

Ha ha! I'm a second cousin to a friend of Jordan Rudess' ex-girlfriend. (Not!)

My sincere gratitude goes to Korg (Jerry, Dan, etc.) for including us. I thought it was a great ad campaign.

Hedegaard · Post by **Hedegaard** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:26 pm

Mike Conway wrote:I thought it was a great ad campaign.

Here is a link to one of those old ad's, using the waybackmachine:

http://web.archive.org/web/200502112339 ... org.co.uk/

vEddY · Post by **vEddY** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:34 pm

UCanDream wrote: In any case, I do go along with vEddy's thought of being objective. If I were to take a walk thru my studio and closey analyze every synth I own I could come up with a pretty good assortment of complaints. But there is also a good set of reasons I own each of them...their strengths. That is also why I bought the Oasys. And it remains the overall strongest synth in my studio. Those of you that use or have used Mac or P.C. based sequencing software might laugh at how much I like the Oasys sequencer. But before I bought the Korg all of my stuff was sequenced on my Ensoniq SD-1. LOL, sad isn't it? I don't even have a computer in my studio. I know that must be a sin!

I'll sum up my pointless contribution with this: I acquired my Oasys quite by chance. I had already ordered a 76 weighted-key Open Labs Neko at musicians friend. It had to be backordered. So I waited...and when it didn't arrive when expected I made a phone call to my sales guy. That call led to the knowledge of a longer than anticipated backorder. THEN, when the second expected arrival date came and went I got on the phone with the manufacturer. Then back to the music store, then back to the manufacturer. Then my order was lost. That added to the delay. My last call to Open Labs was scornful but with a great deal of strained diplomacy. In other words, I had to actually TRY and be polite.... and I was. But I cancelled the "lost order" and respectfully assured the Open Labs guy I would never do business with their company. So I moved on to choice number 2. And that was the Korg Oasys. I haven't ever regretted the way things turned out. I am pretty sure that I have the superior machine...overall. The Oasys has raised the bar on all of my recordings and the delay in my CD release is due to reworking all of my stuff so it sounds as good as the most recent stuff done on the Oasys. So, despite any complaints I have about the Oasys it remains the best synth I have ever played. The nature of my complaints have always had only to do with the fact that it's full development was never realized. Small case in point: What is that frigging "Function" Button doing on my Oasys? Is there anything I could do to make it light up? Is it even wired to ANYthing in there? Why wasn't it properly labeled? It should be the "Nothing" Button. Anyhoo, my money was well spent and I am getting good use out of Korg's flagship synthesizer. In the future, though, Korg's clever ads wont ever convince me to buy anything that isn't already in the box...or anything at all for that matter.

Cool

I really didn't want to sound harsh towards anyone. It's just that the journalistic side of me always strives to be as objective as possible, because it's easy to get sucked in the vortex. Which is not good. And you just have to learn to use your hardware to your own benefit as much as possible.

I know this is not the topic but... I'm gonna say it anyway

I bought the OASYS in a completely opposite way. At the time, I had Triton Studio 88 (upgraded to its eyeballs) and Trinity ProX V3. Had to sell both of them and invested additional funds so I can buy OASYS and a bunch of stuff for my (at that time) soon-to-be guitar rack. I was actually sad to sell any of those - especially Trinity - although I've been using TS88 as a live keyboard exclusively and had hundreds of pre-programmed sounds for it. It was quite a nightmare to get separated from that keyboard. But OASYS - I actually "preordeded" it and payed for it months before it was even announced. I just waited for a couple of months for this thing to arrive. Quite a big pile of cash, but I had strong hints from some of my sources that this keyboard is going to sound like nothing else on the market. When I got it - I was extatic. And it did sound that way, and I went on to buy every upgrade it got (except EXB-DI) afterwards.

Last year, I had quite a lot of gigging to do with a couple of bands and not a lot of time to deliver some very complex sounds. Everything had to be there - 80's synths, strange noises, leads, EP's... I could do top-notch sounds for about 10 songs per day. I'm really obsessed with my sounds when I play that kind of music and I can't stand not sounding as close to original as possible. We're talking about COMBI sounds with 10 or more sounds inside. And with OASYS, that was achieveable without any of those "s**t, how am I gonna do this sound" situations. And hearing it live and recording a CD with it... it just stands out from all of the instruments with such unbelieveable ease. So, for me, it gets two A's for being the best possible synths and a dream to work with in live setting. I tried to play around with Motifs and Fantoms to achieve that and there is just no way.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:48 pm

Hedegaard wrote:UCanDream,
And I remember thinking, "Who the hell is this Mike Conway? Can't be a good musician, since I've never heard of this guy before"
And only later did I discover, Korg had taken normal, breathing human beings and not unnatural-out of touch-superstars to promote the Oasys.

Hedegaard - I know you weren't trying to be personal or judgmental so I'm probably drawing too much attention to it (sorry!), but Mike's an incredibly creative filmmaker who scores all of his own movies too (and surely just because you haven't heard of a musician or they are not a household name doesn't mean they are not good or might not otherwise have a worthy reputation). As just one example - hands up who has every heard of Tommy Emmanuel? Arguably the most talented guitarist alive to day; but comparatively unknown. But to the point - Mike is a serious film and music professional and surely as worthy of Korg's attention as anyone.

As said - I know you didn't mean anything offensive at all and the point to your post is actually very well made ; but Mike's professionalism wouldn't allow it so I felt it worth flagging that he's a formidable character to be sure.

Cheers,
Kevin.

Hedegaard · Post by **Hedegaard** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:41 pm

Kevin, are you trying to score one of those DVD turorials from Mike for free?

Seriously, I've seen his site and a few of his videos about the Oasys on youtube. I also saw a few of his trailers for his home-made movies.
We're not talking Lord of the Rings, or Avatar, or Matrix here, but still, I get your point, hes doing more than a lot of people, who just have a day job at some factory - like Dan Philips

(That was a joke, so suss down please

)

My point was that Korg used promoters that werent a household name, people just like me, that COULDN'T afford to be without an Oasys!
Thats why the ad appealed to me in particular, coz' I'm just a nobody in the universe, but with the Oasys by my side, I feel a whole lot better

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:24 pm

Ok they stopped further software development with the O, but did they stop manufacture of the O because there would be no more software updates or because they werent selling enough units, or because they assumed that if they didnt provide further software updates nobody would buy it?

At one point, before they announced it would be discontinued, i ventured the thought of buying a second unit.

Billy

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:49 am

Hedegaard wrote: I also saw a few of his trailers for his home-made movies. We're not talking Lord of the Rings, or Avatar

You and Kevin are both correct!

I do indeed make home-made movies, but distributors (including Lionsgate) have literally moved millions of dollars worth of my product. Of course, I'm just someone with credit cards.

Korg Forums

If Korg .....

If Korg released an OASYS 2 would you splash out £5000 ( $7000 ) again ???