Features still needed AFTER 1.10 update

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:17 pm

jpeg wrote:I dont see why the four bar limit is such an issue all u do is spread ur idea over two patterns so the workaround is so obvious it should not deter one from buying.

If you just play something pretty minimal with a lots of repetitions and tweak settings on the go or use it just to create patterns to use in your DAW, then it really isn't, at least to me (I use it mostly to create patterns to make into songs in Ableton). But if you like to craft a full song with really detailed progression or play out live a complex song with only the electribe, then it really will challenge you. Please note, I really love mine and have no reason to get rid of it, but I would really LOVE at least a song or pattern chain mode. I miss the song mode from my EMX. I really like to do detailed edits to instruments and patterns of a song after it is all laid out.

Just my 2 cents.

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:31 pm

Why can't people switch patterns? You can Save As to a new pattern, bringing all your sounds and effects with you, and then record new sections and ideas.

Spread your song across several patterns, unmuting new elements as the loop progresses, an switch to a new pattern after 4 or 8 loops of 4 bars?

The thought of working totally linearly - many dozens of bars within a single pattern - is exhausting. You want a DAW or 80's MIDI recorder for that stuff. At which point, your performance is basically playback.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Ted3000 wrote:Why can't people switch patterns?..switch to a new pattern after 4 or 8 loops of 4 bars?

Honestly, I have enough going on with filter sweeps, stuttering drum breaks, tweaking outboard effects and muting/unmuting tracks on 4-6 machines without having to switch patterns back and forth. Also, the minimum really for vocal interludes is 8 bars, not to mention pitch risers and white-noise sweeps need to be at least 8 bars, if not 16, and when note-tails and insert effects don't carry over, not to mention filter position, this is impossible even with manually switching patterns.

In short, I could go back to the short, stunted sequencers I used during my first dozen live shows (1980's), but why? I have played hundreds of shows since and I am used to a new standard. The ES2 is a very usable unit, and I'm going to keep it and work with it, but these types of limitations keep me from feeling that it's worth the money, even at this low price point.

Attn Korg: less flashy EDM™ lights and more of the old features, please.

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:04 pm

Ted3000 wrote:At which point, your performance is basically playback.

Some people create very detailed art that takes a long time as they craft each piece with careful consideration, other like to fly by the seat of their pants. Both ways can have equal value and both can produce amazing results. Neither is really just playback.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:12 pm

Telengard wrote:both can produce amazing results. Neither is really is just playback.

Agreed. As a musician I respect an artist that puts work in, but at the end of the day it's all about what makes the people move. In this results-oriented respect, a working musician is no different than an auto mechanic or a lawyer or a plumber etc.

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:24 pm

Ted3000 wrote:The thought of working totally linearly - many dozens of bars within a single pattern - is exhausting. You want a DAW or 80's MIDI recorder for that stuff. At which point, your performance is basically playback.

If your so busy switching patterns all the time, isn't that essentially just playback as well? you have then become a manual sequencer. I don't think anyone is clamoring for a box they can just go onstage with, press play, and fist pump the rest of the time. Patterns of 8-32 bars can still be as non linear as patterns of 4 bars, you can go 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 or 1-5-3-6-1-7-8-1-2-3-4-4 whatever.....you can go play a synth line on some other keyboard, you can play with your Kaoss pad or vocoder or whatever, without having to worry about rotating that pattern dial every 4 bars....

Which, at 180 BPM, if I calculate correctly, 4 Bars is 5.333seconds

180BPM\60=3 Beats per second.

In 4/4 time sig you have 4 beats per measure (bar), so 4 bars has 16 beats.

16 beats/ 3beats per second = 5.333s

Not to mention most arranging blocks are built in 8, 16, and 32 bar segments.

I worked with the original electribes for years, yes you can get some more life out of 4 bars with muting parts and FX and live tweaks. start adding other boxes into your rig and you have to divide your attention amongst them.

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:33 pm

sauce wrote: In this results-oriented respect, a working musician is no different than an auto mechanic or a lawyer or a plumber etc.

Spoken like a genuine Approved Merchant.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:42 pm

Ted3000 wrote:Spoken like a genuine Approved Merchant.

Yep. I put hours upon hours of my time and effort into developing the best tools for an artist to express their creativity, and receive *very* little compensation. Which is precisely why downgrades like 4-bar limitations, lack of pattern-chaining, 24mb of sampling time, no editing of motion-sequences, poorly implemented pattern transitions (with regards to effects and notes "tails"), lack of a proper arpeggiator, decreased flexibility regarding effects and oscillator controls and rudimentary step recording to be ridiculous. After all, I am in the business of providing high-quality tools, not dumbed-down arts-and-crafts kits for weekend hobbyists.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:45 pm

Oh, and lets not forget that, in your tiny 4-bar pattern, if you decide to make and edit and write the sequence during playback your sequencer will stumble and stutter like a drunk idiot falling down the stairs.

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:57 pm

sauce wrote:Oh, and lets not forget that, in your tiny 4-bar pattern, if you decide to make and edit and write the sequence during playback your sequencer will stumble and stutter like a drunk idiot falling down the stairs.

Saving is an administrative function, not a performance function.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:01 pm

Ted3000 wrote:Saving is an administrative function, not a performance function.

Oh nice.. That makes it way less stupid; thank you!

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:40 pm

Ted3000 wrote:
sauce wrote:Oh, and lets not forget that, in your tiny 4-bar pattern, if you decide to make and edit and write the sequence during playback your sequencer will stumble and stutter like a drunk idiot falling down the stairs.
Saving is an administrative function, not a performance function.

So in your non linear world, you've never made a live tweak, thought "that's good I'd like to come back to it later", and wrote the change live?

I have, and on previous tribes it didn't cause glitching.

roblabs · Post by **roblabs** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:12 pm

thesigma wrote:
Ted3000 wrote:
sauce wrote:Oh, and lets not forget that, in your tiny 4-bar pattern, if you decide to make and edit and write the sequence during playback your sequencer will stumble and stutter like a drunk idiot falling down the stairs.
Saving is an administrative function, not a performance function.
So in your non linear world, you've never made a live tweak, thought "that's good I'd like to come back to it later", and wrote the change live?

I have, and on previous tribes it didn't cause glitching.

Agreed. Happens all the time.

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:03 pm

thesigma wrote:
So in your non linear world, you've never made a live tweak, thought "that's good I'd like to come back to it later", and wrote the change live?

I have, and on previous tribes it didn't cause glitching.

You mean live in front of thousands of my screaming fans, or on live TV?

If I write a change, I hit save. I'm already starting and stopping a pattern all the time to edit it. If I hit save while it runs, it has a small playback glitch.

The only person who would care is my cat, and cats don't care about glitches, also I don't have a cat.

I guess if your idea of a performance is baking a track from scratch like you were DJ Julia Child you'd NEED seamless saves. In which case the new tribes are not appropriate for your extreme lifestyle choices.

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:17 pm

Ted3000 wrote:
thesigma wrote:
So in your non linear world, you've never made a live tweak, thought "that's good I'd like to come back to it later", and wrote the change live?

I have, and on previous tribes it didn't cause glitching.
You mean live in front of thousands of my screaming fans, or on live TV?

Not thousands of fans or on live TV, but don't the people in my audience deserve the same standards of quality?

Ted3000 wrote:I guess if your idea of a performance is baking a track from scratch like you were DJ Julia Child you'd NEED seamless saves. In which case the new tribes are not appropriate for your extreme lifestyle choices.

Here we agree. Though you don't have to be building from scratch for it to be a problem. Say you decide to record a motion sequence live in front of your audience, because your'e actually performing and not just pressing play, and you nail it and want to save it to use later after your breakdown pattern, or even back home in the studio......is that so extreme?