Temporary withdrawal of support for Korg Pa products

Discussions relating to the Korg Pa2X Pro, Pa800 & Pa500

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Sharp
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Post by Sharp »

Hi PraiseTheLord
Sharp, I definitely defer to your knowledge and experience on this matter but I was surprised by your response above.
Ok, I can see why but if you take into consideration that I've posted over 11000 time and read pretty much the entire content for the forum. I'd say I have a very good grasp of how things really are.

You can't help but getting a good understanding of something when you spend as long as I have here.
Surely most people know how to load new resources in when they need to upgrade their OS. So if Korg provided more styles they would be loaded at that time.
They might know what it means to load resources, but I don't believe the majority of people are comfortable in doing that for fear of overwriting their custom settings.

Loading resources means you need to make a backup of your own data, install the new data, and then merge your own with the new. So it's not straight forward.

Regards.
Sharp.
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Post by BiHSound »

Hello Friends

...First I would like to thank Mr. Tramannoni and KORG for letting us know that we are not getting an PA Editor nor an API library. It is bad news, but now at least we know. Mr. Tramannoni, you also mentioned that in the future KORG might change the file format and make it simpler. I just hope that when KORG does this it does not become like Yamaha...by this I mean: Yamaha's PSR9000/9000 PRO used a specific format for its samples, then when Tyros 2 came out, it used a different one...what happend is, whatever samples you had from PSR9000/9000 PRO they were usless on Tyros 2...Yes, Yamaha supplied an FileConverter, but it does a worst job than creating everything from scratch...I hope that when KORG switches to a new file format they will stick with it and not change it with every new release of an arranger. This would be worst than the current format.

...This topic has gone way off-topic...This topic was not about lazy users, or EMC, or Need for More Styles, or Professional "From the Future" Features...it was about getting an simple PC PA Editor for organizing files, similar to Milan Markovich's KAT2000 with support for samples too, that CAN be used by non professionals too ... I mean, you do not have to be a genius to use software :shock: .

...What makes me mad is whenever an individual tries to do us all good (in this case get us all a PA Editor) there are others in the community contradicting that individual, others that would also benefit from the idea but do not see it yet. We are never going to get anywhere until we all start working together. I was ready to put in at least a year of my time programming this PA Editor for all of us, but now we are all getting a big nothing...and all I needed was your support, I wasn't asking for any money.

...Mr. Sharp, I also do not agree with your statistics. Your statistics would be true if every PA user was born in one of the English speaking countries (USA, CANADA, UK, AUSTRALIA etc) and played English type of music, but most of the arranger users are not. Actually, the biggest number of arranger users is from one of the other forgotten countries or regions like: the Balkans, Arabic countries, India etc. and people of these Ethnicities also live in countries such as Italy, UK, Germany, USA, France and you name it ... This is an huge huge huge number of users we are talking about that WOULD BENEFIT from such software since the way any sold arranger is setup by default it is not fully setup for the music from these Ethnic regions. The reason that the arranger manufacturers are selling arrangers with samplers is because they are aware that these instruments are sold mostly to people that do not play English type of music (most English music players play in real bands)...if they sold arrangers without samplers musicians from the forgotten countires would not buy them ... The converted Triton file you uploaded Mr. Sharp is just another proof that there is a small number of English muiscians using arrangers, try uploading Darbuka/Tabla samples and you will see how many times it gets downloaded ... Also, this is an English speaking forum and logicaly it is mostly visited by English musicians therefore that is the main reason we are getting such resistance for this idea ... KORG, try visiting one of the Bulgarian, Serbian, Turkish fourms and see what they have to say about an PA Editor ... Just because one Nation of people does not use it doesn't mean others won't

...Also, I was very suprised at Nedim's comments ... Nedim was the one that sold his KORG because it lacked easy PC editing and now he is saying that we do not need it. :roll:

... Once again, we are NEVER going to get anything from these manufacturers until we start working together (Teamwork, like they teach us in schools) and this is not the time to prove who is smarter and who is not.
Last edited by BiHSound on Wed May 14, 2008 8:29 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Bachus
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Post by Bachus »

Sharp wrote:Hi Guys.

My 2 Cents on the word “lazy” thats been thrown around here......

Fact is that the majority of Arranger user DO NOT program their own sounds, styles... anything. The extent of their interests with modifying their keyboards goes only as far as what it takes to setup performances by where they can recall all the settings for the next song with the press of a button. The End !!!!

Which is why there is no official editor in the first place. The people here screaming for third party editors won't amount to even 1 percent of the population using arrangers. Not even close.

I monitor downloads from time to time on the server, and back when I was converting entire banks of Triton sounds to Pa1X format and Styles, there wouldn't be more than 20 downloads of a file in a month, and far less then after that.

So I don't think people are “Lazy”, I believe that the majority are simply not interested. All they want is to turn on the keyboard and to have it all sitting there for them, created by KORG and ready to go. No dealing with samples, merging styles, programming or sound design. Just switch on a play a jam packed keyboard full of quality factory sounds & styles.

Regards.
Sharp.
But then that 1% of people makes those really awesome styles that the other 99% of people want to have...exactly those people asking for these tools are the ones that create the stuff the other 99% want...

So if that 1 % of the people have a hard time creating things, the other 99% will be just as sad...
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Post by Clarence322 »

I've been following this subject, I've read many, but I'm wondering a couple of things:

1. How many people are really demanding (external) software to manage their Pa800?
2. What kind of people are those?
3. Why do they demand managing software?

I own Korg Pa keyboards for several years, lately I bought myself the Pa800, but even now I don't feel the need for software to arrange or to manage my stuff. Why not? Just 'cause I'm able to do on my Pa800 itself! I'm a tweaker as well, too. I like to make my own sounds, styles, and so on. But nowadays all on the keyboard, just using my pc as kind of backup of everything.

And hell, yeah, it's right; Roland and Yamaha file format is easy to understand, back in 2000 when I got a EM-25, I wrote my own software for managing all what was possible because it just wasn't possible on the keyboard itself.

And I wouldn't, wait; even don't dare to say Korg keyboard are simple to manage! But with patience, and reading the manual, most of us are capable of doing so. And I think Dazz (and BasariStudios) pointed this out by saying people are lazy. And that's not with the meaning of hitting knees, but it's the truth and not only in keyboard-land, but in all branches: computers, telephones and even cars, I encounter it almost daily. And my answer is at all the same: 'RTFM (Read The f*ck*ng Manual), you can find the solution for your problem at page xxx.'

I rest in my statement: it's not Korg only who's to blame for lack of support, but users of their equipment as well, too. Yes, there is software which isn't capable of reading the new Pa-file format, but take into account how long the Pa800 is on the market and how many new keyboards were introduced around the same time. Hard for those 3rd party software developers if you want to serve a complete community instead of just one brand. Keep this in mind, too, please.
With musical regards,
Clarence322
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Post by BiHSound »

1. How many people are really demanding (external) software to manage their Pa800?
Everyone that plays different type of music other than the one for which the arranger was initially setup. If you are playing this music, there are hundreds of sounds and styles you need to create and organize, not because you want to but you have to. This becomes a very painful process on a small screen. How many people?...hmmm, take a look at the map and everything will be clear :wink:

2. What kind of people are those?
Answered it in question 1

3. Why do they demand managing software?
Answered it in question 1

And to answer another one of your questions: Currently I do everything directly on the PA and I am not lazy, I read the manual :) ... but there is so much to do and PC software would make my life much easier.

There is another soulution than software, which I would much prefer...that is: KORG include all of the sounds and styles that the rest of us use and then there would be no need for software. Roland created a Balkan arranger for the Balkans region, and it includes sounds and styles used in this region...but, the arranger it self is like an toy, looks like it is made from paper and lacks many features used while playing live...so, even when they create an arranger for a specific region they always do something wrong. :( ... Yamaha's OR arrangers are another example.

Once again, we may not be understanding each other because of the music type we play, it is perfectly normal, but I hope you will understand that there are many files to organize if you play different type of music than the arranger was default for.
Last edited by BiHSound on Wed May 14, 2008 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by miden »

Sharp, I think you have missed the point on exactly WHAT is being asked for.

Perhaps the choice of term "editing" is too encompassing. What is wanted is a way to, (using a PC/MAC) organise, re-arrange, re-list, sort, change...well that should be enough examples.

People want an easier way to setup their keyboard patches, banks, style lists, sound allocations etc etc.

Not a PC editor to create or edit sounds, not a PC editor to create or edit styles,
just a simple program to organise the PA.

As I said before if Ric Freak can do this with very limited resources and time, I really cannot see why Korg cannot.
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Post by rikkisbears »

Hi Sharp,
I submitted this style to Ron's Createasongstyle forum a day or so ago. It's not a Korg forum , it's for all arrangers. I would say that the Korg PA800 /PA2X members would only make up a very, very small proportion of the 1500 members.
The styles been downloaded 13 times in one day.
http://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/i ... pic=5162.0

I also had to redo a zip of the 8 earlier styles I'd submitted, ( they'd been lost when Ron updated the site) 19 times in 1 day & they were styles that had been on site for quite a while.
http://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/i ... pic=5161.0

I'm only a hobbyist, what I put together sounds ok to me ( there again I'm easily pleased haahaa). If somebody gets some use out a style , then great. I normally try & remember to put loading instructions. The Korg operating system isn't the easiest to work out for a new owner.

The people I've come across in the various keyboad forums Yammie, Technics, Roland etc like collecting styles ( especially if they're free haahaa). They use what they want, throw out the rest.
I had a couple of General Music Keyboard members in my style forum. These poor guys had no hope of getting new styles. I converted some of my old styles for them, probably sounded like garbage as I had no way of hearing the result, let alone trying to tweak them. They were so pleased to just have something new, even if it meant fixing them up themselves.

best wishes
Rikki
Sharp wrote:Hi rikkisbears.
Hi Sharp,
not so sure people wouldn't actually like more styles.
I'm sure everyone would if asked, but if you gave them what they asked for, you would be shocked at how many people wouldn't even know how to load them.

They wont do what is required to learn either. So as always your only feeding a very small percentage of people.

[
best wishes
Rikki

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Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
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Roland FP10 piano

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Lee
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Post by Lee »

I think it would be good to have a new post that is for discussing styles, in general. We have gotten OT from Rob's original post....

So, I will start a new topic with a response to some of the post about styles in this topic...

Thanks,
Lee
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Post by Clarence322 »

miden wrote:Sharp, I think you have missed the point on exactly WHAT is being asked for.

Perhaps the choice of term "editing" is too encompassing. What is wanted is a way to, (using a PC/MAC) organise, re-arrange, re-list, sort, change...well that should be enough examples.

People want an easier way to setup their keyboard patches, banks, style lists, sound allocations etc etc.

Not a PC editor to create or edit sounds, not a PC editor to create or edit styles,
just a simple program to organise the PA.

As I said before if Ric Freak can do this with very limited resources and time, I really cannot see why Korg cannot.
Now I get the point, and have the answers to my questions. Yes, I can imagine that if you you use the Pa800 / Pa2X for live gigs, there's a substantial need for software which enables you to set up configurations in a quick way, especially because those arrangers are set up for music all over the world.

So if I embarrassed any people my apologies for that 'cause i did not mean to, I just asked why, now I know the answer.

To shorten things out, personally I do not need software for such tasks, but I don't play live with my arranger. But I hope Korg sees the demand for such and acts as supposed to act to fullfill such demands.
With musical regards,
Clarence322
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Post by BasariStudios »

What a wonderfull new day, right after thursday...KetronS are home...
...mmm...it took only few hours for Extasy...
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Rob Sherratt
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Post by Rob Sherratt »

BasariStudios wrote:What a wonderfull new day, right after thursday...KetronS are home...
...mmm...it took only few hours for Extasy...
Hi Nedim,
Just curious what you meant? Left me real puzzled initially ... but now I get it - Extasy overdose, coupled with KetronS keeping you awake all night ... ?
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Post by rikkisbears »

Hi Nedim,
what's a KetronS? I thought you were waiting for the Audya.



[quote="BasariStudios"]What a wonderfull new day, right after thursday...KetronS are home...
best wishes
Rikki

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PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano

Roland FP10 piano

Yamaha PSR SX900

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Lika
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Post by Lika »

Hi men .

Nedim's wanted AUDYA - just compare with PA2X pro :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.thomann.de/gr/ketron_audya.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gr/korg_pa_2_x_pro.htm

You can see that PA2X pro is more ahead .....

I would never change any KORG PA series key with any other keys - and if those would be given to me without money .... :P

KORG forever !!!
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BasariStudios
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Post by BasariStudios »

Lika, sorry bro, i dont think you are worth the talk.
Rob, yes brother, exactly.
Rikki, Audya is coming too, this was all free,
i oficially work for them now.
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Post by Bachus »

Lika wrote:Hi men .

Nedim's wanted AUDYA - just compare with PA2X pro :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.thomann.de/gr/ketron_audya.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gr/korg_pa_2_x_pro.htm

You can see that PA2X pro is more ahead .....

I would never change any KORG PA series key with any other keys - and if those would be given to me without money .... :P

KORG forever !!!
No one can have an opinion on this untill he has tried them side by side for severall hours... And so thats prolly noboddy at all except some ketron developers and they are somewhat biased...
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