Eurovision 2014 Winner

Pepperpotty · Post by **Pepperpotty** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

P.S. I'm going to suggest a giant singing Panda for the UK's next Eurovision entry. It can't do any worse than we have been doing!

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:00 pm

karmathanever wrote:
Ojustaboo wrote:Dictionary "Normal" - Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected
I wasn't honing in on one word, just merely asking what you meant by a "normal person"?

Sorry, I was stressed this morning and misinterpreted what you said.

OK so I have read your dictionary quotation and now I ask the same question using the dictionary's definitions so, "what is the standard?", "what is usual?" and "what is expected?" (expected by whom? expected by "normal" people?)
If you mean "majority of" rather than "normal" then it is discrimination.
Pointless argument really eh? One can completely get tied up and go round and around ad infinitum.

To the point of this topic, Stephen Kay and Pepperpotty sum it up nicely.

AND Conchita,so far, got 90 "replies" and 1800 "views" in the Korg Forums "Latest News" - not bad eh?

I suppose normal is really what the majority do, although I don't think it's quite as straight forwards as that.

Trying to think of some examples to get what I'm thinking, so that it comes out right.

I hate football, the majority of people I know love football. I suppose using that argument it's normal to like football if the vast majority of people like it.

The vast majority of people conform to what the majority consider the norm (hence as you said, the majority is the norm), yet I have no problems with hippies, punks, rockers or whatever.

If from time unknown, we were all born with just one arm, and suddenly a few people were born with two, being born with the one arm would be the norm.

However, when it comes to dressing to portray sexuality, I know this is going to come out wrong, but I will try and will probably be repeating myself.

To me, there's something odd about dressing the way the gay pride choose to dress. Again I feel I have to stress this has nothing to do with with their sexuality.

I think people into things like bdsm are anything but normal, yes it's their choice, but to me, something is wrong either psychologically or mentally to really enjoy having pain inflicted.

And of course I'm basing this from the point that I have zero interest so I don't understand how someone else can. Rather like I don't understand how anyone likes dried fruit or coconut

When I see the men in gay pride parades etc, they often seem dressed very very similar and seem to be saying that when they want to party, that's the attire they choose.

I look at that attire and I think exactly the same as I do to people into bondage etc (and again to me they often look very very similar).

And to me, while I couldn't care less what private individuals get up to in the privacy of their homes, bondage, bdsm etc all looks perverted to me. I would be lying if I said otherwise.

Doing something I think is odd, in the privacy of your home, and not blatantly advertising it is one thing.

Most people choosing to dress like it in a rally supposedly showing the world how normal you are and how the world should accept you with open arms, well it simply doesn't add up.

If it was one small group in one country that would be one thing, but it seems to be their global uniform for such events.

Even going around in skimpy briefs with oiled bodies, to me sends out the wrong message, it sort of sends out the whole point of Gay Pride is to advertise sex.

While there is an awful lot of exploitation of women's sexuality, especially in things like music vids, I imagine if a load of scantily clad, oiled up women, in the numbers that the men do in gay pride rallies, did the same thing in the name of representing say equality for women, many many many other women would complain that it's nothing but sexual exploitation and exhibitionism and has exactly the opposite effect of what the group claims they are trying to achieve.

I still don't know if I'm making myself clear, but all I will be doing if I continue will be repeating what I've already said elsewhere.

And the more I try to explain something I haven't been very clear about, the greater the chance of someone misinterpreting what I say and being offended.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:00 am

Hi Ojustaboo
I understand what you are saying. I hadn't intended wasting forum space on this or seeming to be argumentative or suggesting you were being inappropriate - I was purely wondering "who/what" dictates and defines "normal" - probably the media is most guilty.....
With the "Law" and political correctness etc the way it is today, then I think it is almost safer to say nothing as it seems someone will misinterpret it - certainly one needs to be very careful.

Regarding the Eurovision Song Contest - wouldn't it be interesting if they were "blind performances" - (like "The Voice" TV show) - just judging the music without the lasers, beards and glamour? Don't think that will ever happen though.

Take care

Pete

Pepperpotty · Post by **Pepperpotty** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:18 am

I've been saying for ages that we should find a way to keep the entries secret so when they perform you have no idea what country they are from.

That way you would get a winner based purely on the song and politics would never come in to it.

But I can't ever see that happening either.

Madleine · Post by **Madleine** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:26 am

Pepperpotty wrote:I've been saying for ages that we should find a way to keep the entries secret so when they perform you have no idea what country they are from.

That way you would get a winner based purely on the song and politics would never come in to it.

But I can't ever see that happening either.

Yes, this time i have to agree with you.
The rules of the early EVC were the best:

1) No hype for noone and no song
2) Every country must sing in its own language again!
3) The songs should have more "GrandPrix-character" again.

But, this wouldnt / doesnt change the fact that every person on this planet should live, dress, feel like he wants to, in every way. ( If it doesnt harm other persons)
We all have to accept (even if some wont) that time / society has changed -in many ways- and thats OK! Life isnt static and also mankind isnt.

Austria has won, this is OK. The song was good, the performance interesting and glamorous.

So, we have a winner for 2014 and looking forward to 2015.

Joe Gerardi · Post by **Joe Gerardi** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:45 pm

Madleine wrote:We all have to accept (even if some wont) that time / society has changed -in many ways- and thats OK! Life isnt static and also mankind isnt.

Okay, so again I ask do we have to accept pedophiles?

And why doe we have to? Why are people forced to accept anything? Do Muslims then have to accept other religions? Do atheists then have to accept the existence of God? Do omnivores then have to accept - and cook for - vegan guests? Because you're a musician, does someone have to like your music? if they don't aren't they discriminating against you?

See, that's the dangerous thing about "have." You are forcing people to do something against their very nature. Force people long enough and they will rebel against it. In fact, if we go by the definition of "normal," then this statement then becomes true:

Homosexuals have to realize that they live a deviant lifestyle.

Gotta be careful about what people have to do.

..Joe

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:18 pm

Very true, I do not have to accept anything. That is my freedom of choice.

Madleine · Post by **Madleine** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:06 pm

Joe Gerardi wrote:
Madleine wrote:We all have to accept (even if some wont) that time / society has changed -in many ways- and thats OK! Life isnt static and also mankind isnt.
....... do we have to accept pedophiles?

Dear Joe,

i was very friendly to you, even of your strange perception and sometimes your rude way to discuss.

Now, i can be rude too.
Again, that even you now understand :

NO, we dont have to accept pedophiles! This were never ever the subject of this thread! You must have a real mental problem !

You always brought that subject into this thread! We are talking here about Eurovision and not abusing of childs!

I dont know what went wrong in your life with you but even you have to accept that life & society has changed in the way that people like Conchitta do exist and that they are the same worth as a human, like you and every other person on this planet ! ! You have no chance, you have to live with this fact!

So stop annoying me!

S T O P ! Got me ?

STOP ASSUMING ! STOP TO INTERPRET! STOP PUTTING YOUR PRIVATE PROBLEMS INTO A MUSICIAN FORUM! THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC FORUM!

AND AGAIN FOR YOU !! NO - WE DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT PEDOPHILES! DID YOU GET THAT ???

Thank you and please dont harass me anymore !! I feel harrased by you!!

Pepperpotty · Post by **Pepperpotty** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:59 pm

Joe - All we have to do is accept that people have the right to live their life the way they want (within reason). There is a difference between accepting something and agreeing with something.

I accept that there are people in my country who vote Lib Dem. Do I agree with it? No. But I accept that it is their choice to make. I don't think any less of them for choosing to vote Lib Dem.

Pepperpotty · Post by **Pepperpotty** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Madleine wrote:
Joe Gerardi wrote:
Madleine wrote:We all have to accept (even if some wont) that time / society has changed -in many ways- and thats OK! Life isnt static and also mankind isnt.
....... do we have to accept pedophiles?

Dear Joe,

i was very friendly to you, even of your strange perception and your rude way to discuss.

Again, that even you now understand :

NO, we dont have to accept pedophiles! This were never ever the subject of this thread! You must have a real mental problem !

You always brought that subject into this thread! We are talking here about Eurovision and not abusing of childs!

I dont know what went wrong in your life with you but even you have to accept that life & society has changed in the way that people like Conchitta do exist and that they are the same worth as a human, like you and every other person on this planet ! ! You have no chance, you have to live with this fact!

So stop annoying !

S T O P ! Got me ?

STOP ASSUMING ! STOP TO INTERPRET! STOP PUTTING YOUR PRIVATE PROBLEMS INTO A MUSICIAN FORUM! THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC FORUM!

AND AGAIN FOR YOU !! NO - WE DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT PEDOPHILES! DID YOU GET THAT ???

Thank you and please dont harass me anymore !! I feel harrased by you!!

Madleine - I don't think that Joe has harassed you in any way. He has only replied to one of your posts and I can't see anything in there that is rude or offensive. However, telling someone on a forum that they have a mental problem is very rude and unnecessary. Also, the use of capitals on a forum comes across as shouting. Please take the time to think about what you are saying and how it may come across to other people.

Pep.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:31 pm

This topic was an innocent discussion about music - relating to the Eurovision song contest but sadly it raised some blood pressures and has become somewhat unpleasant - perhaps due to misinterpretations and it is clearly rattling cages....

Music is the greatest thing we have today - it doesn't discriminate age, race, religion - just look at how we all come together in this Korg Forums "family" - it is truly a positive for the future.

I think that if no-one else has anything they wish to say or add about the Eurovision Song Contest, then it might be time to put this topic to bed.

Pete

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:59 pm

Joe seems to assume that accepting and not discriminating legally against gay people must logically lead to doing the same for pedophiles. This is an obviously flawed argument because
1. Pedophile behavior is clearly harmful to children
2. If it is NOT harmful to children (since he seems to say that "many" pedophiles don't harm children) that means basically the pedophile is not practicing in which case there really isn't that much to be upset about.

I don't think there really are that many of the second category but it's impossible to prove either way and the entire thing is moot to te original discussion anyway. I'm similarly annoyed by his insistence to talk about this but he can say what he wants.

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:51 pm

Madleine wrote:
Joe Gerardi wrote:
Madleine wrote:We all have to accept (even if some wont) that time / society has changed -in many ways- and thats OK! Life isnt static and also mankind isnt.
....... do we have to accept pedophiles?

Dear Joe,

i was very friendly to you, even of your strange perception and your rude way to discuss.

Now, i can be rude too.
Again, that even you now understand :

NO, we dont have to accept pedophiles! This were never ever the subject of this thread! You must have a real mental problem !

You always brought that subject into this thread! We are talking here about Eurovision and not abusing of childs!

I dont know what went wrong in your life with you but even you have to accept that life & society has changed in the way that people like Conchitta do exist and that they are the same worth as a human, like you and every other person on this planet ! ! You have no chance, you have to live with this fact!

So stop annoying !

S T O P ! Got me ?

STOP ASSUMING ! STOP TO INTERPRET! STOP PUTTING YOUR PRIVATE PROBLEMS INTO A MUSICIAN FORUM! THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC FORUM!

AND AGAIN FOR YOU !! NO - WE DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT PEDOPHILES! DID YOU GET THAT ???

Thank you and please dont harass me anymore !! I feel harrased by you!!

I know one of our great leaders who must have their authority has reprimanded you.

I just want to make a very quick comet that your post is exactly the sort of thing i mean about double standards, people demanding the rights for things to be acceptable, people demanding the rights to free speech, but if someone says something you (as in anyone) doesn't agree with, very often the sort of reply given by them is the sort you give.

There is loads I would like to say (I realise I've probably said far too much in this thread already) and just because I can say things, doesn't' mean I necessarily would, I should be free to express what I want without being ripped to pieces, however often those calling for tolerance are the most intolerable when they have a different opinion.

I know if I overstep what most people calling for acceptance for everyone, think is acceptable to them, there will be outrage.

Which to me is double standards.

I can understand what Joe is trying to say, I don't think he's saying it very well and I don't think I can say it any better, but I do think you are all misunderstanding him.

I'm not sure I should even try to be honest as I suspect it will be completely misinterpreted.

I'll try quickly, but not convinced I will succeed

Based on what I said earlier about how some people are born attracted to the opposite sex, some people are born attracted to the same sex, some people are born attracted to minors.

I actually do think if homosexuality is accepted as normal, then so should paedophilia l (see this comment in it's self will be misinterpreted), because what we are asking is for society to accept as normal, desires from people whose brains have been wired in a way that nature never intended.

Nature intended (regardless of whether you believe in a God or not) for men and women to have sex to procreate. That is why nature gives us the desire for sex, to continue our species.

I don't think I'm wrong in saying the above paragraph, its the same for animals/insects etc, even ones that die (or get eaten) after, nature gives them the desire for one reason.

Now, while I say what I said, I am in no way saying we should accept paedophile behaviour one little bit.

Your reaction is the sort of reaction that understandably people make when someone is labelled a paedophile, or sticks up for paedophiles.

What I am saying is if they cannot help the way they are born, and they are born wired different, if we have accept that a homosexual should not be penalised for their sexual desires, then we also shouldn't penalise a paedophile for theirs (again I am not saying we should ever think a paedophile acting out on their desires is in any way right).

What we should be doing is feeling sorry and very sympathetic to them as it's not their fault. Obviously as I have repeatedly said throughout, protecting both them and children,

I simply do not logically in any way see how we can be asked to accept one group of people whose brains are wired different to how nature intended, and not another, but that is what society tends to do.

In saying all this, I am in no way comparing someone in a homosexual relationship to a paedophile.

I don't think I can say it clearer than that

One thing I will add to my previous comment on how Gay Pride people often dress, and how I see their dress sense as coming across perverted (again just talking about the way they dress and would think the same if heterosexual people dressed that way), many people do see homosexuality as harmful to children for that very reason, and again I don't believe this would be so if you didn't have the camp brigade and the way they dress up at their events etc.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:00 pm

Again, people in general should attempt to be offended less easily. That's an entirely different issue from codifying discrimination into our laws.

Madleine · Post by **Madleine** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:28 pm

@Ojustaboo

Well, i dont know what you and Joe are trying to cope but it is seriously partially offending and -queer- <--- in its origin meaning.

I think you two must have some serious problems.
Sorry - cant write it in another words.
I never saw in my entire life people who are constructing problems and weird theories like you do.

And, by the way noone reprimanded me. Dont tell lies.

Its ridiculous what s is going on over here.

Simply ridiculous !

I dont think that i want to be in a message board where people are allowed to speak out freely their "........sentiments" and thoughts that way.

I dont want to see other people offended and i dont want to be offended too.

70 years ago, we had in Europe many people thinking like that about other people. We all know what happened....
I dont want to take a bath in that -brown water-

bye!