M1 ROMs and Memory questions

[bubblenugget]

Hi Everyone!

I recently picked up a M1R and had some trouble finding information regarding how sounds are stored and backed up. I am familiar with sysex and successfully reloaded the factory sounds. My concerns are more in regard to the actual waveform data, battery death, and PCM cards.

I've read that the internal ROM is basically wiped out in the event that the battery dies. To restore the sound, I've seen mixed instructions on needing to use the original factory sound RAM card vs. doing everything via sysex. But to my understanding, sysex only transfers program/combi/global/sequence data and not the PCM data. Am I incorrect on this? If so, where is the PCM data stored on the M1 and is that safe from battery failure?

Onward to the ever expensive and hard to find PCM cards! The internet has a vast number of program patches for the M1 series, which are great for expanding the system. Though it seems that adding new waveforms requires those pesky PCM cards. Does anyone know if these cards have been successfully backed up yet? Are these sounds able to be loaded to the M1 though other means?

I also know that the cards have batteries, which may or may not be incredibly hard to replace, not to mention potentially losing data afterward.
If the PCM cards are a necessary evil, I did find this site claiming to have the program data for each of the official cards for a price. Has anyone used this before? http://www.kinneticfx.com/korgmt/cardmst.htm

I appreciate the help!

[T3owner]

Hopefully the following will help to resolve some misconceptions, etc.

ROM = Read Only Memory
RAM = Random Access Memory

ROM is non-volatile - data is retained even if all power is lost.
RAM is volatile - loss of power causes loss of data.

The progs/combis/global/seq data is in User RAM.
The PCM data is in ROM, safe from battery failure.

The original factory p/c/g can be reloaded via MPC-00P ROM card, the factory sequences via MPC-00S ROM card. Alternatively, preload via SysEx.

For non-original sounds:
The Korg MPC-series ROM cards contain new progs/combis.
The Korg MSC-series ROM cards contain new PCM samples.
Since ROM doesn't need power to retain data, these cards have no batteries.

PCM data from a card isn't loaded to memory in the M1, it's read directly from the card.

Cards that require a battery are the MCR-series RAM type. They're used primarily for backing up one's own data. What's stored on them will be lost if the battery dies.

[bubblenugget]

That's exactly what I was looking to find out. Much appreciated!

[bubblenugget]

One more question on the subject of how the M1 series handles PCM data. I recently got the MSC-03 Piano PCM card, but it did not come with the program card for that set. I loaded the programs over sysex, but honestly, I can barely hear any difference between the piano program with or without the PCM card slotted, even with a side by side midi recording of them.

When in Edit Prog. I can see that one of the waveforms starts with a 'C' which I assume means card. But it also seems you cant select card banks without a program card slotted.

So, before I go and get one of those expensive blank memory cards, I'm trying to find out if the PCM card is only detected by the M1 if a Program card is slotted, or is it just that the Piano PCM card just wasn't that different to begin with.

I am expecting a couple more complete card sets to arrive soon and will be doing some experiments with them. Hoping to get some more experienced answers in the meantime. Thanks again!

[T3owner]

One more question on the subject of how the M1 series handles PCM data. I recently got the MSC-03 Piano PCM card, but it did not come with the program card for that set.

I presume that "MSC-03" is a typo. The "Piano" card set is MSC-5S, and includes MPC-05 (Programs) and MSC-05 (Samples).

 

I loaded the programs over sysex, but honestly, I can barely hear any difference between the piano program with or without the PCM card slotted, even with a side by side midi recording of them.

See http://www.synthmania.com/msc-5s_piano.htm
That should help you determine what to expect.

 

When in Edit Prog. I can see that one of the waveforms starts with a 'C' which I assume means card. But it also seems you cant select card banks without a program card slotted.

The INT and CARD buttons select the source of Progs/Combis/Seqs. If there's no card in the PROG/SEQ DATA slot, then pressing CARD won't access any Progs/Combis/Seqs.

So, before I go and get one of those expensive blank memory cards, I'm trying to find out if the PCM card is only detected by the M1 if a Program card is slotted, or is it just that the Piano PCM card just wasn't that different to begin with.

With the MSC-05 card in the PCM DATA slot, you can select the C00 Piano 2 Waveform for the Oscillator. The other card isn't required for that purpose.

 

I am expecting a couple more complete card sets to arrive soon and will be doing some experiments with them. Hoping to get some more experienced answers in the meantime. Thanks again!

You're welcome. I hope the above answers your concerns.

[bubblenugget]

Wow, yes. I completely typed that out wrong about the MCS-03. You're right on the card sets I was asking about. I blame lack of coffee for my typo.

You've given me the answer I was hoping to hear once again. I really appreciate the help! Cheers!

[bubblenugget]

I wanted to add a few more notes in case it helps anyone else. I realized some of the errors that I ran into were the result of the MIDI/Sysex apps I was using.

The first issue I had was regarding data transfers using the FLEX Editor
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/ ... hp?t=99291

I realized that it was loading the programs into the app before sending the data to the M1. Unfortunately, samples from the PCM cards are not recognized by the app, so it apparently substitutes from the internal samples instead. To fix that I would have to edit the program again on the M1 directly.

In order to make sure that the program data was not modified before being sent, I just had to use a standard sysex app like MIDI-OX.

Not only that, but when I did my comparison recordings, it turned out that the MIDI player kept setting my M1 back to program I00 every time I pushed start. So, no wonder it sounded the same every time...

In hindsight, FLEX Editor really is an amazing app for using standard programs, but MIDI-OX is better for loading programs for the PCM cards.

[sunriser111671]

@bubblenugget:

Send me a private message to me on here so I can give you my email to have you send me the SYX file using the MCS-03 card.

Or, if you can post a link to it here, that'll work, too.

I want to see if I can at least get program/combi sets using Card data to be sent/received to/from the M1/M1R correctly.

Thanks!

[sunriser111671]

@bubblenugget

Never mind. I already updated Flex Editor to work with PCM cards now.

Flex Editor M1: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/ ... c&start=60

Try it out and let me know if it works ok. I don't have any PCM card, so I haven't tested this on my M1.

Thanks!

[sam..korg]

Hello everyone.
I could have access to PCM of synth 2 and I am trying to load the sounds via sysx and use the PCM card wave forms. But it never load the PCM files from the card. Is there any setting that need to be set in M1 first? I just insert the card in PCM card reader of M1 and load the sysx via K1 editor

Thanks

[sunriser111671]

As far as I know (I don't have any M1 PCM cards), the extra waveforms (multisounds) are just there for use as long as the card is plugged in and recognized by the M1.
You can create and PROGs or COMBIs with that PCM card and my Flex Editor M1 software will store any PCM assigments with the syx.
But it only stores the card location of the waveform! You still have to have that PCM plugged in BEFORE downloading the SYX file or it won't recognize card-based waveforms.
Also, if you happen to use a different PCM card for othe syx files, you'll have to make sure to plug in the appropriate PCM card before downloading the SYX file.

BTW, has anyone verified that the PCM card functionality works correctly in Flex Editor M1?

Thanks

Hello everyone.
I could have access to PCM of synth 2 and I am trying to load the sounds via sysx and use the PCM card wave forms. But it never load the PCM files from the card. Is there any setting that need to be set in M1 first? I just insert the card in PCM card reader of M1 and load the sysx via K1 editor

Thanks

[sam..korg]

As far as I know (I don't have any M1 PCM cards), the extra waveforms (multisounds) are just there for use as long as the card is plugged in and recognized by the M1.
You can create and PROGs or COMBIs with that PCM card and my Flex Editor M1 software will store any PCM assigments with the syx.
But it only stores the card location of the waveform! You still have to have that PCM plugged in BEFORE downloading the SYX file or it won't recognize card-based waveforms.
Also, if you happen to use a different PCM card for othe syx files, you'll have to make sure to plug in the appropriate PCM card before downloading the SYX file.

BTW, has anyone verified that the PCM card functionality works correctly in Flex Editor M1?

Thanks

Hello everyone.
I could have access to PCM of synth 2 and I am trying to load the sounds via sysx and use the PCM card wave forms. But it never load the PCM files from the card. Is there any setting that need to be set in M1 first? I just insert the card in PCM card reader of M1 and load the sysx via K1 editor

Thanks

Thanks. I actually do the same. Insert the card then load the sysx file that use this pcm data but I still hear it uses the default pcm data on M1. I do not know maybe my M1 has an issue with Card as this is the first time that I had such oppourtunity to test it

[sam..korg]

As far as I know (I don't have any M1 PCM cards), the extra waveforms (multisounds) are just there for use as long as the card is plugged in and recognized by the M1.
You can create and PROGs or COMBIs with that PCM card and my Flex Editor M1 software will store any PCM assigments with the syx.
But it only stores the card location of the waveform! You still have to have that PCM plugged in BEFORE downloading the SYX file or it won't recognize card-based waveforms.
Also, if you happen to use a different PCM card for othe syx files, you'll have to make sure to plug in the appropriate PCM card before downloading the SYX file.

BTW, has anyone verified that the PCM card functionality works correctly in Flex Editor M1?

Thanks

Hello everyone.
I could have access to PCM of synth 2 and I am trying to load the sounds via sysx and use the PCM card wave forms. But it never load the PCM files from the card. Is there any setting that need to be set in M1 first? I just insert the card in PCM card reader of M1 and load the sysx via K1 editor

Thanks

Hello!
Finally te PCM card started to work.! first of all there are two steps that cards needs to be pressed in order to properly fit into the card reader. you feel each steps after push the card inside the slot (You need to press it hard actually ).

I used one PCM card and then I used your editor. After loading sysx for that file, I saw that via your editor still the default PCM for K1 is loaded for the sounds. Then I used MidiOX and with that one I loaded the sysX file for that PCM card. It works with MIDIOX but not with your editor.

My settings in Midi OX is as the following :

Lowe level input buffer :
size :256
Num:16

Lowe level output buffers:
Size 1024
Num 1024

Delay after F7 also is checked.

Hope it helps to solve the others problem who want to use PCM cards!