Korg Forums

This is my first post, so before I get to the topic at hand, let me quickly give you an overview of the keyboards/software that I've had over the years. My first synth was a Korg Polysix! Then I added a Roland SH-101. Several years later I sold my Polysix & SH-101 for a Yamaha DX7-II, which is what I still use today. Although since a while now I have had some VST Intrument Plugins and just use the DX7-II as a MIDI controller to trigger the VST Plugins, so I haven't used the DX sounds in a few years. For some time now, any gigs I've played, I have brought my laptop with me and trigger the VST Intrument sounds. When recording in Protools, I just use those Intrument plugins. However, I don't like bringing the laptop with me to gigs, and the DX7 keybed doesn't have weighted keys, nor does it trigger the piano sounds as good as I'd like, so I am saving up to buy a new Synth/Workstation.

So, I have been researching which synth/workstation I am going to buy, and I'm trying to decide between the Kronos 88 and the Montage8. I have researched all the options and right now it comes down to these two. I realized the main deal breakers/scale tippers for me are 3 things:
- I need to have the most awesome pianos available & installed in my new keyboard, especially a C7 Grand (the Synthogy Ivory C7 Grand would be my preference by far!)
- I need enough storage on the new Workstation/Synth for the variety of pianos, etc. that I want to load.
- I need to have a Keybed that triggers the piano samples evenly and feels as much like a real piano as possible.

So it is now down to the the Kronos 88 key and the Montage8 !! (All other keyboards have been ruled out)

It is a tough decision because there are several things I like about the Montage over the Kronos. But there are several things I like better about the Kronos over the Montage. The Kronos has something like 60 or 80GB of storage, and I hope I can get the 'Synthogy Ivory C7 Grand' piano installed on that workstation... Yet there are some down sides to the Kronos for me as well, and there is still hope that I might be able to get the right C7 on the Montage. I am still saving up for this new Workstation/Synth, so I have some time before I can even make a purchase/final decision.

The Montage appeals to me because the learning curve is much smaller, as it only has 2 engines...one is sample based and the other is basically the DX7, which I already know how to program. The Korg having 9 engines scares me a bit, I've heard the manual is extremely large, and I don't want to spend too much time learning to program/configure the keyboard, as I'd rather spend it playing. Also, there are some features on the Montage that appeal to me, like the Super Knob, the BHE keybed, and the ease of importing the DX7 sounds that I want to keep using.
However, on the other hand, I do like the piano sounds and the variety of pianos on the Kronos better than the Montage. I prefer the weight of the Kronos, the additional inputs/outputs, the larger screen, and especially the fact that it has a full sequencer, where as the Montage has a partial sequencer (although that is not a complete deal breaker since I can just use Protools to modify the sequencing and import back into the Montage or the Kronos). But neither keyboard has the Synthogy C7 Grand that is by far my favorite. If the Kronos or Montage had that particular piano available to install so that I don't have to bring my laptop with me to gigs and can just use it from the keyboard itself, that alone would be THE deciding factor at this point!

Here are demos of the Synthogy Ivory C7 Grand. Maybe some of you will see the appeal and hear the tonal quality, depth/dynamics of sample layers, and how even the loudest notes are not harsh & still pleasing to the ears for me:
https://soundcloud.com/synthogy/pursuit-i2
https://soundcloud.com/synthogy/odyssey
https://soundcloud.com/synthogy/prosperity (Jazz)

I realize that both keyboards have 'almost' everything that I want, and having owned both Korg & Yamaha, I am not biased to one brand over the other.

One thing about the Kronos that I originally thought was an option, was the ability to just install/import my VST Instrument Plugins into the Kronos, such as my Synthogy Ivory Pianos, but someone has since told that is not the case & that I would need to convert them to Kronos format first with some autosampler like Chicken Systems Translator..!? I am hoping someone on here can confirm or refute this about the Kronos and VST Instrument Plugins...

So, as you can see, I am now researching & trying to make a decision between the Kronos 88 and the Montage 8. I have not ruled out either keyboard. I don't know which way it will go, but any help you can provide, opinions, information you may have, etc., would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Kronos is not a VST host. You can't load VST instruments like you can load in a PC DAW on the Kronos. You can however, sample from a VST instrument and re-create the instrument on the Kronos. No special software is required though some additional 3rd party software may shorten the process.

Kronos can load DX7 presets directly too, so that's a wash.

I wouldn't be intimidated by the 9 synth engines. It's not like you have to master programming each one in order to be able to use the Kronos. All you have to do is load up one of the many built in presets to use them. The presets can be tweaked to a pretty good extent from the surface controllers. If you decide you want to explore them in more detail, they are there for you.

The manual is huge. The learning curve is large. This is because it does SO MUCH. But like the synth engines, a lot of it you can just learn at your leisure. It is usable straight away without hours of study. You might want to watch the 5 or so video manual tutorials that Korg made for a quick start. It's plenty to get you off and running.

The Montage had just come out when I was making this same decision. For me it was Kronos hands down. No regrets. But your needs may be different. May want to look at availability/costs of expansion sound banks too. Kronos has a ton of quality expansions available from Korg & 3rd parties. I'm not sure what's out there for Montage at this point.

Hope that helps some.

you mentioned your 3 deal breaker- but later you stated a pref for the various Kronos [K] pianos.

As far as storage, you will eventually need a 2nd SSD. Kronos is obviously the way to go here, as it has sample streaming for 3rd party libs- this is a huge advantage.

9 is just a #. Forget any concern.

You seem to prefer Montage navigation over Kronos ? To me its def the other way around.

Thick manual ? Kronos is not a ' study synth in 2 years '

The K is a big elephant. Its not something to dine in for a week/month.
The K is 1 bite at a time.

There is no short cut to learning. You accept what it is.

If long term learning, on going learning is frustrating, don't get the K.

The K is more of a lifetime keyboard. Going on +7 years.

I am not clear if your plans are to gig or record. What your requirements are with a +$3000 keyboard is very important

I feel exactly the same as Greg the Kronos is much easier to navigate than the Montage. Setlist is wonderful. Many libraries to choose from and I don't think I have any factory sounds most have been altered or purchased at Korg Sound Libraries.

The Montage is a great keyboard also but I prefer the KRONOS more versatile for me. They are a few sites that have free libraries for the Kronos as well. The Kronos is also cheaper than the Montage. Right now Proaudiostar has a K2 88 online for around $2800 and no tax if you live in another state other than New York.

Good luck in your decision!

Kronos has 4GB max RAM capacity and factory-installed 60Gb storage for sound sets that can be rotated in and out of RAM space as needed.

RAM can hold a good amount of sound sets for one session. More than you could need in a few hours of performance.

The real effort in Kronos would be in learning to manage loading and unloading sound content to create the space and sound bank content you want.

How much RAM does Montage have? How much internal Storage? Maybe it relies more on external flash drive storage which gives it as much storage as you buy on a flash drive to insert?
Kronos also has external USB drive storage that can add to the already 60GB internal storage.
Limited RAM loading and unlimited Storage of content to bring in and out of RAM.

RAM, SSD storage and sample management + loading and unloading, will be the things you will have to learn in Kronos.
I say this based on the sound content requirements you describe.
No Guarantee Kronos will have onboard the sounds you want- but there are third party piano sounds you can buy from Korg Shop online.
Or create your own samples with kronos and the help of a computer based sample converter or advanced computer based sampler.
Kronos has SGX-2 for detailed piano sounds. I think you can buy more SGX piano programs online at korg shop.
The other name brand pianos you mentioned, that are just not Korg or Yamaha nor classic enough, are not going to be available in Kronos or Montage unless you or a third party develops it.

Kronos keeps having new sounds coming out from third party developers, and the sounds include detailed pianos and more.

You should go to Krog shop and audition some of the sound sets selling there. Those are sounds that will not be included with Kronos when you buy it.

I don’t know enough about Montage to compare it to kronos -but from what i have heard, Kronos is not slacking behind Montage in any area you metioned.

The work environment of both are different even where they perform the same job.
I never buy the idea that one is a better work environment than the other. Even if some tasks get done in fewer steps on one versus the other.
One being better to work with than the other, is really just a matter of the work-flow conditioning of the user.
I am conditioned to Korg.

It sure is more convenient that Karma is onboard Kronos, whereas it has to be connected via computer for Montage.
Onboard Karma is the deal maker for me on Kronos. And that ties into the onboard kronos sequencer which i hear is lacking in Montage.


When it comes to Synth engines, out of 9 synth engines, you have at least two synth engines for quality acoustic pianos. SGX-2 for premium pianos and then HD-1 for high definition pianos and the flexibility to make your own pianos in HD-1 with imported samples from any of your choice VST or direct sampling from a piano.
Two Kronos synth engines specializng in Pianos, while entirety of montage has 2 synth engines and no more.
The remaining Kronos synth engines include some that are capable of decent synth pianos, or sounds that can be layered on to SGX-2 or HD-1 pianos to give them some missing residue.

Kronos is 8 velocity layers for piano touch. It may be able to do 16 velocity layers via 2 offset OSC’s or two combi timbres where each OSC or timbre does 8 velocity layers and the total 16 velocity points never match or meet.
Not sure if what i described is really possible, but you do have at least 8 velocity layers and that is more than my fingers can finnesse.

Giving up the computer is not the way to go for me. What makes Kronos complete for me, is added external devices and they get no more advanced than what comes on computers these days.
Kronos and Montage are both beasts and you will never get their full potential without a computer and other external devices plugged into Kronos or Montage.
They both have several screen pages dedicated to interface setup for working with external devices via midi.

Getting Kronos to better control and play VST is a good route to go.
Not so good to get kronos to displace the computer.
But, to save from bringing computer to the concert venue, you can get detailed VST sounds on kronos with a lot of work or finding offers from people who will sell or give you the work already done.
Kronos can do it, even if not the way you hope it will.
It is worth it to put in the time to learn how to get kronos to do what you need it to do. Even if you only need to use and learn 20% of its features, it is worth it to have and is such a system that you can have easy extensive use of it without having to know more than a fraction of the system you need.
Just don’t go into strange pages pushing buttons and changing settings, or you may spend more time finding help on the forum here rather than playing kronos.

Lightbringer wrote:Kronos is not a VST host. You can't load VST instruments like you can load in a PC DAW on the Kronos. You can however, sample from a VST instrument and re-create the instrument on the Kronos. No special software is required though some additional 3rd party software may shorten the process.

How good do the VST pianos turn out after re-creating for the Kronos? Does it get the release and resonance samples, plus all the main sample layers, or is it not quite the same as the original?

Lightbringer wrote: Kronos can load DX7 presets directly too, so that's a wash.

Is that an easy process? Like if I want my customized DX7 sounds loaded, what format do I need to have them in?

Lightbringer wrote: The Montage had just come out when I was making this same decision. For me it was Kronos hands down. No regrets. But your needs may be different.

What were you main needs/wants/requirements/criteria that made your decision to go with the Kronos easier.


Thanks for your help!

19naia wrote:K

It sure is more convenient that Karma is onboard Kronos, whereas it has to be connected via computer for Montage.
Onboard Karma is the deal maker for me on Kronos. And that ties into the onboard kronos sequencer which i hear is lacking in Montage.

.

this is huge selling point for Kronos[K].

Karma is a difficult discussion for a potential new K owner

Suffice to say is this is where the potential owner could be clear on their requirements.

-for a song writer, even simple use of Karma is a huge asset.
- for casual playing in the home studio, Karma is hella fun
- for gigging, Karma likely gets in the way. One exception is
if you are a One Man Band- then Karma can make your stuff shine.

I've never tried sampling a piano. I'm perfectly happy with the pianos that came installed on the Kronos, so never felt the need. Maybe others can comment.

The DX7 files are super easy to load. It reads/imports them in the same SYSEX format that the DX7 saves them in. They play back in the MOD-7 synth engine and sound exactly as they were on the DX7. From there, if you want, you can take them to another level using some of MOD-7s advanced features, putting them in a combi and mixing other sounds with them, or just by adding some of the Kronos's great FX.

Qui Robinez made a great video that shows how easy it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyWvNX30NI

One of the things that made the Kronos stand out for me was the full fledged onboard sequencer. I wanted to get away from using a computer to produce music (or at least have that option) since I sit in front of a computer way too much. The 9 synths were another standout feature. I like designing my own sounds.

I haven't played live for a while, but if I return to doing that, the set list feature along with the ability to seamlessly change sounds while still hearing the tail of the previous sound is a huge plus too. Getting to sounds quickly was always an issue for me when I played live, esp. since I was juggling a guitar too...

And as others have mentioned, onboard Karma is really sweet!

Lightbringer wrote: And as others have mentioned, onboard Karma is really sweet!

What is Karma?

GregC wrote:you mentioned your 3 deal breaker- but later you stated a pref for the various Kronos [K] pianos.

Not sure what you mean by that or what the connection you are making between the 3 deal breaker and the Kronos pianos!?

GregC wrote: You seem to prefer Montage navigation over Kronos ? To me its def the other way around.

I don't know how to navigate either keyboard at this point. Have you navigated the Montage? Do you have a Montage or MODX, and experience in navigating the Yamaha synths?

GregC wrote: The K is more of a lifetime keyboard. Going on +7 years.

Which ever keyboard I go with, it will be a lifetime keyboard for me. That's why after all the research I've done so far, every other keyboard has been eliminated except for the Kronos and Montage.

GregC wrote: I am not clear if your plans are to gig or record. What your requirements are with a +$3000 keyboard is very important

Both! I don't mind triggering VST Instruments when recording and using sounds from the new keyboard as well, but when gigging I want to be able to have everything onboard the keyboard and not need to bring the VST's with me anymore via a laptop.

benny ray wrote: the Kronos is much easier to navigate than the Montage. Setlist is wonderful. Many libraries to choose from and I don't think I have any factory sounds most have been altered or purchased at Korg Sound Libraries.

Good luck in your decision!

Do you have a Montage or MODX and experience navigating one or both of them, and had the opportunity to compare navigating directly against the Kronos?

Thanks for the help!

vertig0spin wrote:

GregC wrote:you mentioned your 3 deal breaker- but later you stated a pref for the various Kronos [K] pianos.

Not sure what you mean by that or what the connection you are making between the 3 deal breaker and the Kronos pianos!?

GregC wrote: You seem to prefer Montage navigation over Kronos ? To me its def the other way around.

I don't know how to navigate either keyboard at this point. Have you navigated the Montage? Do you have a Montage or MODX, and experience in navigating the Yamaha synths?

IMO, navigation preference is way more important than trying to figure out how to import your VST's. or even if they are preferable to Korgs factory programs/sound engines.

After all, the Korg factory programming has been a strong selling point for +7 years.

Both boards have distinct/different navigation/LCD approaches.

I understand you are opinion collecting. At this point, hustle down to a store
to try both boards. Thats what I would do.

vertig0spin wrote: What is Karma?

Kay Algorithmic Realtime Music Architecture, named after it's creator Stephen Kay, who is a fairly frequent poster here on these forums.

https://www.karma-lab.com/main.html

It's kind of hard to put into a nutshell. It can be an arpeggiator. It can be an auto-accompaniment that follows your playing. It can assist you in playing some patches in a way that sound natural, but would be difficult to do on a keyboard, such as using the ribbon to strum a guitar patch or using part of the keyboard to pick the strings while using another zone for the chords. It can do drum grooves.

It's not static MIDI files though. It's configurable, adjustable in real time.

I'm probably not doing it justice. Check out some videos. Here's a neat one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmqyYBdbgUs

19naia wrote: It sure is more convenient that Karma is onboard Kronos, whereas it has to be connected via computer for Montage.
Onboard Karma is the deal maker for me on Kronos. And that ties into the onboard kronos sequencer which i hear is lacking in Montage.

Thanks for all the detailed information on the Kronos, much of which I did not know about.

The sequencer part on the Kronos or Montage might not be an issue because I would likely use a DAW to edit sequencing.

What is Karma? Is it the sequencer editor for the Kronos, or is it something more?

GregC wrote: I understand you are opinion collecting. At this point, hustle down to a store
to try both boards. Thats what I would do.

Unfortunately, where I live (Nova Scotia, Canada) there is not a great variety of keyboards at the music stores, and I was lucky to even try the Yamaha MODX8, which I did not like at all, because the keybed is GHS and when playing piano sounds, it wouldn't trigger the proper velocities in the mid/lower range. I had to hit the keys much harder than I should have, but yet the highest keys were perfect.
Then just recently by chance, I was close to Boston and was able to try the Montage8 at a music store nearby. It has a BHE keybed (balanced), so it sounded and felt like playing an actual grand piano if I closed my eyes. They didn't have a Kronos unfortunately, but from the videos I seen, there is no issue with playing pianos on the Kronos.

The navigation of either keyboard (Kronos or Montage) is not something I would be able to learn at a store well enough to compare.

So I am continuing to do research on both keyboards and listening to everything I hear on the forum as well as the Montage forum.

Thanks!