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Although I love the new Fantom 6, I'm not happy that I have to sign up to Roland Cloud just to get the EXZ and new SuperNatural soundbanks (for OS 1.6). It's like being held hostage.

I am not too happy about this Zenology.
It devaluates the hardware people have, I mean, why spend $3000-4000 on a workstation which STILL awaits a much needed upgrade from Roland in terms of multi-sampling, sequencing, and the FULL supernatural acoustic soundset?
I can't help but feel a bit screwed by this company, but I put the blame on myself, I should have known better.

I love it , Its like Roland listen and derived a solution fit to what they themselves would like how to have it. All Roland sound engine and still the best to come yet inter-changeable with the platform of choice , Best part is they provide Zenology Lite how neet is that.

I've dreamed of this kind of interoperability because of that yet again I'll probably give up on getting a kronos even if it sounds still better and dump some of my other gears for some Rolands.

Probably. But I do love what they did there.

I am not too happy about this Zenology.
It devaluates the hardware people have, I mean, why spend $3000-4000 on a workstation which STILL awaits a much needed upgrade from Roland in terms of multi-sampling, sequencing, and the FULL supernatural acoustic soundset?

+1

Btw what happened to Roland Clan Forums...can´t get in

danx wrote:

I am not too happy about this Zenology.
It devaluates the hardware people have, I mean, why spend $3000-4000 on a workstation which STILL awaits a much needed upgrade from Roland in terms of multi-sampling, sequencing, and the FULL supernatural acoustic soundset?

+1

Btw what happened to Roland Clan Forums...can´t get in

Neither can I, don’t know what’s up with that forum.

Roland has groked that when it comes to hybrid synthesis -mostly wavetable- the future is software-based. With this perspective, the hardware is just the vehicle for the engine. A subscription model for the softsynth makes totally sense then. Pay

I think it's a really bold move by Roland and puts them ahead. The likes of Korg are in the Triton era, software-wise.

Pricing is not really clear --is Zenology Pro included with Roland Cloud? If that is so, they may have a winner for studios: for 200 bucks/year you can get all the latest.

I also cannot login to Roland Clans.

Jan1 wrote:I am not too happy about this Zenology.
It devaluates the hardware people have, I mean, why spend $3000-4000 on a workstation which STILL awaits a much needed upgrade from Roland in terms of multi-sampling, sequencing, and the FULL supernatural acoustic soundset?

This is the bold move by Roland, their seemingly cannibalizing strategy is that the hardware people will buy their gear for gigging. Sooner or later, SN sounds will appear as a paid module in their subscription cloud.

Genius move by Roland. The plugin is no substitute for the hardware. There's no V Piano, SN or ABM models from Jupiter X. No Vocoder, TR REC or analog filter. No control surface or that great keybed or 60 second boot time.

But that plugin is really a gateway drug to Roland hardware. Pro version will edit any ZCore tone. So anyone can develop ZCore tones for these machines without needing to own any of the synths. That's huge and I think a first.

Genius move by Roland. The plugin is no substitute for the hardware. There's no V Piano, SN or ABM models from Jupiter X. No Vocoder, TR REC or analog filter. No control surface or that great keybed or 60 second boot time.

And the pads...don't forget the pads.

About SN and ABM they'll arrive with Zenology Pro.

At the end of the day I was looking for the sounds so after spend more than 3500 on the F6 I'm gonna sell it and stay on the suscription.

Honestly I think it's another bad call like avoid "chasing the analog ghost" and now a shoot in their own foot.
But it´s just my opinion.

Devnor wrote:Genius move by Roland. The plugin is no substitute for the hardware. There's no V Piano, SN or ABM models from Jupiter X. No Vocoder, TR REC or analog filter. No control surface or that great keybed or 60 second boot time.

But that plugin is really a gateway drug to Roland hardware. Pro version will edit any ZCore tone. So anyone can develop ZCore tones for these machines without needing to own any of the synths. That's huge and I think a first.

Eventually almost everything will come to the Roland cloud, so the only bonus for Fantom owners will be the hardware elements, and they pay $3000-4000 for that.
Yes, my Fantom 8 has the best keybed ever in any workstation, but for that kind of money you can a LOT of quality hardware from other companies.

The thing that stings me most is the fact that the Fantom was released in an unfinished state as a growing platform, and Roland asked for input from the users.
Since then there have been updates coming in, drop by drop, and now suddenly the entire ZENcore sound engine is available for the computer and Roland shouts from the rooftops that ABM models will be forthcoming very soon while they remain so silent and secretive about what they intend to do with the basic elements of the Fantom workstation, namely the sequencer and the sampler.
Why?

If you tell me I should have bought the Fantom for what it is it is only half true, because Roland advertized it as a growing platform.
Furthermore, who expects a company to stick with a sequencer that only has 3/4 and 4/4 in a flagship workstation? I think I am not the only one thinking that Roland released a basic version of a sequencer with the intention of building further upon that basis.
But have they done so?
No, and what's more they force their users into subscriptions to their Roland Cloud in order to update the Fantom, that sucks.

IF Roland were to come out with a special sampler, and IF they were to transform the sequencer into something much better and less restrictive, allowing a more linear style of sequencing with audio tracks, THEN the Fantom would hold its place of its own albeit I still would not buy it if I didn't have a Fantom already.
Why should I if I can buy a lifetime license for the upcoming Zenology Pro and access the sounds at a tiny fraction of the price? Plus additional models?

Imagine if KORG released an OASYS in 2005 and you bought it, and nine months later KORG proudly announces that all the engines and sounds of the OASYS will be available in software format.
As an OASYS owner you still would be better off than a Fantom owner because the OASYS had a versatile and flexible sequencer from the start.

There's just too much to unpack in that post Jan1 but a few questions:

What else is getting ABM models?

Where does it say you need paid subscription to update your Fantom?

The sequencer has been beaten to death. I hear you but they say they will update it. Until then, why not use what you've already been using for odd time sigs and advanced sequencing?

Imagine if KORG released an OASYS in 2005 and you bought it, and nine months later KORG proudly announces that all the engines and sounds of the OASYS will be available in software format.

Roland didn't do anything like this. As a Fantom owner you should already know Zencore has nothing to do with ABM or V piano or supernatural. Maybe you should spend some time with Roland Cloud plugins running inside your DAW. They are massive resource hogs. 4 System 8 plugins will bring down a 6 Core Mac Pro.

As a Fantom owner you should already know Zencore has nothing to do with ABM or V piano or supernatural. Maybe you should spend some time with Roland Cloud plugins running inside your DAW. They are massive resource hogs. 4 System 8 plugins will bring down a 6 Core Mac Pro.

You got a point there but as far as I understand Zen Core is a more powerful engine that handle V Piano and SN and will handle ABM in a more efficient way.
Somebody argue that there will be something missing against real ABM,but I can´t tell.

But what I can tell is that the new SN Piano and SN EP from the OS 1.6 sounds fantastic.

My concern about Roland behaviour is that they may lost the hardware sales.
But from another point of view you could say they embracing the full market spectrum.
People who can afford the Fantom and people who can afford the membership plan.
At the end only time will tell.

Devnor wrote:There's just too much to unpack in that post Jan1 but a few questions:

What else is getting ABM models?

Where does it say you need paid subscription to update your Fantom?

The sequencer has been beaten to death. I hear you but they say they will update it. Until then, why not use what you've already been using for odd time sigs and advanced sequencing?

Imagine if KORG released an OASYS in 2005 and you bought it, and nine months later KORG proudly announces that all the engines and sounds of the OASYS will be available in software format.

Roland didn't do anything like this. As a Fantom owner you should already know Zencore has nothing to do with ABM or V piano or supernatural. Maybe you should spend some time with Roland Cloud plugins running inside your DAW. They are massive resource hogs. 4 System 8 plugins will bring down a 6 Core Mac Pro.

You're not entirely correct, just read what Roland wrote about Zenology, I quote:
"ZENOLOGY will soon support Model Expansions for perfect recreations of classic Roland synthesizers like the JUPITER-8, JUNO-106, SH-101, JX-8P and more. They use Analog Behavior Modeling to capture the essence of these legendary instruments and are optimized for high polyphony with an interface inspired by the original—but reimagined for use in your DAW"

So, Zencore is connected to ABM.
The way I understand it ZENCore is a synthesis engine and ABM is a particular tonegeneration method using the ZENCore synthesis engine.
Don't know if that's entirely right though, I'm no Zenologist.

I'm willing to bet that just as ABM will come to the cloud, so will Supernatural and the V-piano.
And then the question comes, is the differentiation between soft- and hardware worth the asking price for the hardware?
You point out the CPU resources vs the hardware processor(s), and that's a very valid consideration.
The 'hardware experience', the workflow, all very valid and important to me.
But I also would have to say that if Roland had announced plans for Zenology when the Fantom was launched I doubt if I would have bought the Fantom, and what the effect of the plugin on future sales will be is anybody's guess.
If the Zenology plugin hurts sales of the Fantom, what do you think will happen to the commitment to the Fantom platform?

I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much at the negative side and I should approach it more from a positive angle.