Sync Record on DAW with Start/Stop

[mambomatze]

Hi Folks,

i spent now hours in several DAWs for testing to get the following done ( until now without success ) :

Did someone manage to get Record started in a DAW if you press Start ( in Style Play Mode) on the PA4 X ? I cant get this running, tried on Cubase, Bitwig,Samplitude....

I tried to google more about this and as i cannot found something useful i am wondering how people record midi into a daw without sync ?

cheers & thanks

[korg1]

You will have some options:
1) use something like E-RM MultiClock or MTC/SMPTE timecode etc
2) use an old AtariST FM ,it could actually send midi clock or that old cubase5 had MTC,i can't remember right now,but it was working then.

3)Try to use Midi cables instead of usb on all cases ,as usb is unstable frequently .

4) record anything you want on pa4x's internal sequencer,save it and transfer it to daw for further editing.
You can always export a style and import it in daw too.

5)set up your daw for multitrack recording, use pre-roll and write anything you want.
Then use manual or automatic quantize to bring the whole recording in to the first beat position.

That's the options i could think so far.
i believe some daws could actually get in slave mode,but i don't know which could work for Pa4x.

greetings

[jpires]

Hi, you should be able to do it.
I do it all the time but i use Cakewalk by Bandlab former sonar platinum.
i do it both ways, Pa4x as a master and as a slave.
and yes i do use Usb cable, it work fine for me.
JP

[korg1]

jpires ,
Would you mind showing us how you manage to start recording multitrack on daw ,just when you press a chord or note on pa4x ,without using any external midi clock?

[Korghelper]

As I always recommend... Don’t!

Why use a DAW to record your main style ‘capture’, with all the complications of syncing clocks and USB data clog, when you can use the built in MIDI Recorder, save as an SMF and transfer to your computer afterwards..?

You will get a MUCH better, more accurate and glitch free capture, and then can edit and overdub to it to your heart’s content afterwards with no need for clock syncing.

Yes, it’s an extra step, but compared to the headache of syncing the computer to the arranger (computers prefer to be the master, not the slave), it’s more than worth taking, IMHO...

[jpires]

You have to use midi Clock.
i Set mu Pa4x external usb under global Midi.
and chanel 9 bass ch10drums ch11 percusions ch 12acc 1 13acc 2 and so on and, there is an intructions here in the forum that i start awhile ago and i get some help from Sam.
jp

[korg1]

jpires , so you ARE using an external midi clock,right ?
If not,then your Pa4 works only as a Slave.

[jpires]

Korg1 i think you are correct , i miss understand the question.
My pa4x work as a slave, i will try tomorrow as a master to see if it will work then i will post the results
Jpires

[siebenhirter]

.. to get Record started in a DAW ... cannot found something useful i am wondering how people record midi into a daw without sync ...

As you have already received an answer in the German forum to the same question, that was possible with all Pa-Arrangers. There also are many threads in German forum with same theme.

For DAW recording use the Pa-Keyboards send-clock and set its clock source to Internal (DAWs sync set to MIDI)
For playback use DAWs internal clock, while you have to deactivate Pa-Keyboards clock-send and switch to clock-source ExternalMidi.

For recording set tempo and time signature of DAW to same values as of Pa-Keyboards style. Essential change between recording and playback of the DAW is its synchronization between internal and midi synchronization - the DAW recording and transport functions are used for startings.

There are different possibilities how to start style without drums (with "no chord") or with drums and chords (recognized valid chord).
*
In PlayMode and SequencerMode, recording and playback work with the same settings. It is necessary that an SMF (or dummy file) of the appropriate length is loaded (otherwise no recording will work with len zero). In contrast to the recording of styles, recording in Songplay / SequencerMode is not only possible with start / stop but also with continue and positioning.

[BR]

As I always recommend... Don’t!

Why use a DAW to record your main style ‘capture’, with all the complications of syncing clocks and USB data clog, when you can use the built in MIDI Recorder, save as an SMF and transfer to your computer afterwards..?

You will get a MUCH better, more accurate and glitch free capture, and then can edit and overdub to it to your heart’s content afterwards with no need for clock syncing.

Yes, it’s an extra step, but compared to the headache of syncing the computer to the arranger (computers prefer to be the master, not the slave), it’s more than worth taking, IMHO...

+1,
I do the same way, recording my song in PA4X, save it as midi and then import it into my DAW for further editing.
This is more reliable and practical way and no headache.

[mambomatze]

Thanks for all the tips...i´ll give it a few more try tries...and with midi direct, i suspect the usb driver to causing some probs, strange behaviour in same cases. working, half working, not working at all.....

[siebenhirter]

.. how you manage to start recording multitrack on daw ,just when you press a chord or note on pa4x ,without using any external midi clock? ..

Pa-arranger send a synchronization message to the other devices with following setting:

Clock-send from Interal, Midi-In channels and Midi-Out-channels=like Masterkeyboard (with Upper/Lower, StyleTracks)
Settings of DAW (Cakewalk): Midi-Sync, send no Sync to Midi-Out, send no Echo on Midi-IN, record all Midi-channels

For recording select a track, push record - now DAW is "waiting for Midi-Sync":
If you have "no chord " in chord-recognition
- recording will start with drums if you press styleplayers start/stop
- recording will start with all style tracks if you press styleplayers Synchro start and play a chord
- recording will stop with start/stop or ending
If you have a valid chord in chord-recognition, DAW is waiting for Midi-Sync in same kind, but starts recording with all style-tracks and with recognized chord. Also in this case recording is possible starting with drums only with playing a "no chord" on styleplayers synchro-start.

Begin recording with upper notes and without drums simple can be done with mute drumtrack and start with "no chord" and styleplayers start button.

Even if using the built-in recorder at first glance seems more reliable, with a directly connected DAW this can also be done without complications.

Once you found your setting, switch between recording and playback toggling DAWs sync between MIDI sync and Internal and without headache.

If you better like to work with DAW use it as a much more convenient tool with as much tracks for mixing as usual - also with with crossing style tracks of different styles - and without necessarity to import / re-import SMFs separately.

PS: for "no chord" select chord-recognition "Expert" and play three adjacent keys.

[korg1]

siebenhirter,
thanx for the tip.
I never worked with Cacewalk before,
but i tried it and it really works.
I knew there would be some daws capable of doing that,
great news Cakewalk is working for that,
it will be a 200$ money saver.

i wish Steinberg bring that option back again someday ,
haven't tried it with Studio one to be honest,but i will give a try too !!!!

[siebenhirter]

.. tried it and it really works .. wish Steinberg bring that option ... haven't tried it with Studio one ..

Because since the previous millennium I am working with nostalgia tools and free software, I do not know much about modern software, but
I think that works with Cubase too (since Atari 1040 times).

I cannot imagine that sequencer software exists with missing settings to follow an external synchronization, because this would, in my opinion, make this software unusable for most applications.

With Cubase you can find this setting in the Transport menu:
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ons_r.html
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ngs_t.html

I think also Studio One not only can send syncs (Master), but would receive external clock signals (Slave). If in slave mode or set to midi for timing and you're sending midi clock, then it should start playing when you pressed play/receive in studio one.

[Korghelper]

One of your main issues with clocking the computer from the arranger is, what happens to any tempo and time signature information?

If what you are trying to record has any tempo changes (say a ritardando at the end) the computer won’t know it because it isn’t the clock. If you have any half bar fills or a time change, the computer won’t know it, you’ll have to insert it later by hand in the DAW

But an SMF from the arranger’s MIDI sequencer will have all the tempo and time signature information embedded in the data.

I’m really not sure why you want to do something the hard way. The easiest, the most accurate way to record the entire arranger’s output is to use the Sequencer. Sysex will not mess with the timing (it will if you clock the computer) and all events will be exactly where they are supposed to be. Then you transfer to the computer.

Try it, see how easy it is...