Korg Forums

Hi guys

This perhaps should be in a different section (might move it) but as there has been a lot of discussion about cross-platform third party "Sound" products for sale recently here in this PA5x section, I was wondering (purely out of interest) what the copyright restrictions are when the intention is to make money....

For example, here is what Yamaha say:-

• Yamaha's Proprietary Rights Notice
  Owners of Yamaha musical instruments may use Yamaha’s preprogrammed sounds (STYLES, VOICES, PERFORMANCES, PATTERNS, ARPEGGIOS, SAMPLE DATA or YAMAHA STYLE DISKS hereinafter collectively referred to as “Programmed Sounds”) for their personal musical pleasure. Examples of permissible use include composing musical pieces using such Programmed Sounds and incorporating them in public performances or in recordings, regardless of whether such compositions, performances or recordings are for profit.
  
  THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLES ILLUSTRATE SOME, BUT NOT ALL, PROHIBITED USES WHICH INFRINGE YAMAHA'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS WITH RESPECT TO ITS PROGRAMMED SOUNDS, AND ARE THEREFORE STRICTLY PROHIBITED:
  
  1. Making copies of Yamaha's Programmed Sounds and making them commercially available or sharing them over the Internet with third parties.
  2. Copying pattern data and selling the same as a musical score (paper or digital format) or incorporated in a musical score software program.
  3. Incorporating any DEMO music in your musical composition, or playing any DEMO music in public performances or recordings.
  4. Making copies of VOICES incorporated into a sound source of a Yamaha musical instrument and selling the same as a program.
  5. Copying or distributing, or making available to third parties for their copy or distribution, any Programmed Sounds.

Any thoughts?

SURE

IF you RESAMPLE a sound, if you add your own personal feel and taste to it, Then it’s YOURS!

If you take ROM (RIP) sounds and sell them as yours NO!!!
I have resampled YAMAHA sounds, YES, but RESAMPLED IT, changed a lot of things like FX, EQ LENGTH LOOP etc.

I’m still searching for the answer, CAN I DO IT!
As far as i resample it, I'm ok, Will wait for an answer from the gurus in this.

If you take a style exactly as theirs and convert from their resources, It's little different , but in the same way they offer a program directly from YAMAHA itself, that converts any MIDI to a style, Even if the midi is made by me or a company.




In the other way, I,m Using 90% of the sounds we own from LIONSTRACK, that's left over from Past, 240 GBT of sounds.Thats what i use my files from mostly.I got permission from the creator of it.

But like YAMAHA, did they pay anything to some of the companies they take things from?

Did KORG paid anything to YAMAHA when they copied the Look of PA5X?

Did Yamaha Company paid anything to STAINWAY? Did they pay anything to Prophet/Moog/Crumar/PPG/OBERHEIM/ Or any of the well known artists behind some of the ICONIC sounds from the past? NO!

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/stories/a-g ... -sampling/

Quotes from the above link>

What if i changed the original audio?

In some instances you may have changed the original audio by adding FX, cutting, or transferring it to tape and putting it through a blender… No matter what, the original audio source still holds the copyright and ownership of that new audio recording.

Further reading>
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9ycAH5-Kq2

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... qrkzjcJPkq

I'm not worried about selling the DX7IIFD samples or the DX5 because:
1. the machines are FM synths and not PCM based
2. I own both machines
3. I designed my own patches on them
4. Yamaha isn't going to do anything about it

I'm also not worried about using the word Motif because as it happens that sound is from Nexus and not from the Motif

As far as Detune goes the original patch is called Dee Tune and I also made many modifications to it on the XS rack module before sampling and after

As far as my Roland sounds I also own the JV1080, XV5080, Fantom G, G600, and VA76. I sampled my own patches from them even though I kept the same name and I processed everything through other hardware and software.

I modify all patches that I sample to optimize the recording quality so it sounds and plays smoother than the original machine and or software

If Yamaha or Roland are worried about my sounds and flag me for copyright that means I'm doing my job right.

Thanks for the compliment lol

D575 wrote:https://www.pianobook.co.uk/stories/a-g ... -sampling/

Quotes from the above link>

What if i changed the original audio?

In some instances you may have changed the original audio by adding FX, cutting, or transferring it to tape and putting it through a blender… No matter what, the original audio source still holds the copyright and ownership of that new audio recording.

Further reading>
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9ycAH5-Kq2

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... qrkzjcJPkq

Intresting!
I have also found some , Tnx

Maybe missed the theme of this topic - my interest is regarding copyright in this example:-

Let's use Korg and Yamaha in this example:-
Sample sounds directly from a Yamaha keyboard model A.
Format the sounds ready for loading on Korg keyboard model X.
So effectively saying "Buy my sampled sound set of Yamaha model A for your Korg keyboard model X" implying the purchaser can now enjoy Yamaha sounds on their Korg keyboard.

Several years ago I sampled a single particular sound from a keyboard, built a loadable copy of it for a different keyboard (different manufacturers) and shared it on a forum (note - not for money). Somebody complained at that time that this was a breach of copyright. Never could quite understand this.

The copyright applies on the sound in it's original format

Whatever you do to the original Sound it is not yours to modify and to sell on.

If you use an original Sound and re-sample it, it is still not yours, it still belongs to Korg, Yamaha etc whoever owns the original Sound, owns all subsequent uses of said sound.

If you opened a donut outlet, called it McDonut and put a whacking great big yellow M sign on the outlet do you think that a certain company would not take legal action.

Same thing

So Fender owns the copyright on every recording with a strat? Don't be ridiculous

Asena wrote:SURE

IF you RESAMPLE a sound, if you add your own personal feel and taste to it, Then it’s YOURS!

If you take ROM (RIP) sounds and sell them as yours NO!!!
I have resampled YAMAHA sounds, YES, but RESAMPLED IT, changed a lot of things like FX, EQ LENGTH LOOP etc.

I’m still searching for the answer, CAN I DO IT!
As far as i resample it, I'm ok, Will wait for an answer from the gurus in this.

I've looked into this matter a long time ago and the answer I found was that if you sample sounds from samples it's considered derived work, it doesn't matter what kind of edits you do on them, the original was based on a sample from another keyboard (and yes those keyboards do pay a fee to the companies they sample it from). So that is not allowed as far as I know.

But, if you sample synths based on sounds you created yourself with oscillators then it's allowed, then you just have created your own source material. So for instance:

- sampling sounds from a Korg Triton (triton uses samples as source), -> derived work, so not allowed
- sampling sounds from a Virus TI or a VST like Serum where you created your own sounds on (so not changed factory presets) -> fully allowed, because it's your own material based on generated (virtual) analog sources

Using other brands names in your sound set (like here is a new NORD Stage 4 expansion pack for your Korg Pa5x) that is not allowed, unless you get clearance from Nord for this (which costs money)

Resampling factory presets from synths , like for instance buying the sample robot korg version for 85 euro's and then resample entire synth sound sets from others in a very short time (a 64 sound set takes about 30 minutes) for these kind of things and then selling it for a massive amount of money, also not allowed.

If you do these things for your own keyboards then it is allowed, I have the Native Instrument Piano Noire for instance in my Korg Pa5X, it was really easy to add it to my pa5x, but I would never sell it to anyone and only use it myself and I have bought Piano Noire, so there is no issue at all doing these kind of things as long as it is for personal use.

Personally I only create original material in the past for the market (and yes that takes hundreds of hours sound designing), but everyone can buy sample robot and create sample libraries without a lot of knowledge, it does all the work for you and then final tweaks are easy to learn. For my own use I sample sounds from my own synths, also 'copyrighted sounds' like the gods bathtub from the korg triton, but since I use it myself and not sell it, there isn't any harm in to do that.

Now i'm not saying that sellers here shouldn't do the things above, that is their own decision, but it can give you trouble (for instance google for the legal trials from spectrasonics where people created sound sets from sounds in omnisphere (also based on samples)).

And of course, if you sell only a few items I doubt that large companies will sue you.

Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Ketron and every other company sample sounds for their machines without paying royalties. That's why they change the names of their sounds as well. You think Korg paid Ludwig, Gretch, DW, and other drum companies for sampling their kits? You think Yamaha pays Roland to use the supersaw? Italian grand from Korg is supposed to be the Fazioli F278. Change the name and boom no royalties.

Aripearlmusic wrote: Italian grand from Korg is supposed to be the Fazioli F278. Change the name and boom no royalties.

yes, but those are samples they have created their self or licensed from another company which were sampled from an analog source (a piano), and they don't want to pay money for the brand name, so that is perfectly fine.

If they would sample a piano preset from the nord piano and call it red piano then they would be in trouble, because the nord piano is based on samples that were cleared by nord.

really it's not that hard to understand if you really want to.

So, basically:
Allowed:
- if you sample something from an analog source yourself, your good to go.
- If you sample something from a (virtual) analog synth from your own sound design work, then no problem at all

Not allowed:
- If you use other brands name in your sound sets -> bad idea, those names are copyrighted.
- If you sample something which was based on a sample then that is derived work because you are using other peoples work, not your own work.

And let's be honest, nowadays it's extremely easy to sample presets or samples from other gear or sound designers, so I can imagine that if you copy something and that library get's much attention then someone will take action.

It's up to others how much risk they want to take to make some profit, it's everyone's own decision, and in most cases you probably will get away with it.

Red pianos didn't get into trouble. Copyright also only applies to every country where the copyright is filed in

Aripearlmusic wrote:Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Ketron and every other company sample sounds for their machines without paying royalties.

Do you have documented evidence to backup your statement?

Documented evidence of lack of evidence? That's a good one LOL