Korg Forums

Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them to the new Pa5x format? Of course for personal use only. Thank you in advance for the help.

Rodrigo.B wrote:Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them to the new Pa5x format? Of course for personal use only. Thank you in advance for the help.

The easiest and fastest way would be using the TX16Wx plugin.
https://www.tx16wx.com/

If you have only a hand full of samples just do the manual way. In my case I made a turkish percussion kit with ~4000 samples using the plugin (8 velocity layers with 4 round robins each) and will make more kits over the time.

For beginners it can be a bit confusing using this plugin. I took me some time to understand how it works and how I have to name the samples etc.
I also requested the developer to give us the option to create up to 127 drum groups (exclusive group). This will be probably implemented in the next update. At the moment the plugin is limited to 8 groups only.

To create round robin drum kits with the plugin you need the "Professional" version.

KORG also made a short tutorial (PDF) about this topic.

Since not all parameters (such as "ENABLE NOTE OFF RECEIVE" and "SEND to MFX*") are covered, manual adjustment is needed afterwards.

Rodrigo.B wrote:Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them ...

It's extremely difficult to resample round robin of specific velocities of a modern VST manually no matter of format !
You must have all round robin samples per velocity and create multisamples with assigned round robin samples
per one and still not an easy job for an end user !

In general there is no easy way to resample a VST with round robin without being an expert on this job.
And experts never do the amateur method of sampling VST , they own all samples , create instruments in Pro samplers
like Kontakt and then convert the ready sound to equivalent formats in order to import ready multisamles in Korg samplers.

Pa5X has a fine Drumkit sound editor after OS v1.3 , better that external TX16Wx editor , you can import all samples you need in real stereo format
(not just paired with half polyphony) , import also round robin samples and create amazing Drums & percussion , using your desirable drum mapping.



Hope this helps

fatih89 wrote:

Rodrigo.B wrote:Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them to the new Pa5x format? Of course for personal use only. Thank you in advance for the help.

The easiest and fastest way would be using the TX16Wx plugin.
https://www.tx16wx.com/

If you have only a hand full of samples just do the manual way. In my case I made a turkish percussion kit with ~4000 samples using the plugin (8 velocity layers with 4 round robins each) and will make more kits over the time.

For beginners it can be a bit confusing using this plugin. I took me some time to understand how it works and how I have to name the samples etc.
I also requested the developer to give us the option to create up to 127 drum groups (exclusive group). This will be probably implemented in the next update. At the moment the plugin is limited to 8 groups only.

To create round robin drum kits with the plugin you need the "Professional" version.

KORG also made a short tutorial (PDF) about this topic.

Since not all parameters (such as "ENABLE NOTE OFF RECEIVE" and "SEND to MFX*") are covered, manual adjustment is needed afterwards.

Thank you!

AntonySharmman wrote:

Rodrigo.B wrote:Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them ...

It's extremely difficult to resample round robin of specific velocities of a modern VST manually no matter of format !
You must have all round robin samples per velocity and create multisamples with assigned round robin samples
per one and still not an easy job for an end user !

In general there is no easy way to resample a VST with round robin without being an expert on this job.
And experts never do the amateur method of sampling VST , they own all samples , create instruments in Pro samplers
like Kontakt and then convert the ready sound to equivalent formats in order to import ready multisamles in Korg samplers.

Pa5X has a fine Drumkit sound editor after OS v1.3 , better that external TX16Wx editor , you can import all samples you need in real stereo format
(not just paired with half polyphony) , import also round robin samples and create amazing Drums & percussion , using your desirable drum mapping.



Hope this helps

Thank you so much, I see that you make libraries for the Korg Pa. I hope you can make a Rock drum kit with round robin, that would be very cool because If you look just the factory rock kits don't have that feature.

Custom Round Robin in Pa5X DK editor was allowed in Pa5X for first time in PaSeries after OS v.1.3
so all sound developers are working on it after newest OS release !

Factory Round Robin DKs are noted with RR at the end !
The most important in any PaSeries DK is 8 velocity layers , most of times in that case RR is not even noticeable !

AntonySharmman wrote:

Rodrigo.B wrote:Hey guys. I have a lot of drum VST plugins with the round robin feature. Is there an easy way to sample them ...

It's extremely difficult to resample round robin of specific velocities of a modern VST manually no matter of format !
You must have all round robin samples per velocity and create multisamples with assigned round robin samples
per one and still not an easy job for an end user !

In general there is no easy way to resample a VST with round robin without being an expert on this job.
And experts never do the amateur method of sampling VST , they own all samples , create instruments in Pro samplers
like Kontakt and then convert the ready sound to equivalent formats in order to import ready multisamles in Korg samplers.

Pa5X has a fine Drumkit sound editor after OS v1.3 , better that external TX16Wx editor , you can import all samples you need in real stereo format
(not just paired with half polyphony) , import also round robin samples and create amazing Drums & percussion , using your desirable drum mapping.



Hope this helps

It is not "extremely difficult" to created RR DKs. It actually is quiet easy. Also, since you wrote that the Pa5X DK editor is better than TX16Wx: how long does it take for you to create a 8 velocity layered, 4 RR (for each key) drumkit (~4000 samples in real Stereo format)? Can you automate the velocity layer, RR and key mapping using only the Pa5X?

fatih89 wrote: It is not "extremely difficult" to created RR DKs.

Read more carefully of what I wrote , talking about sampling a VST not 10 minutes of work in Pa5X with ready to go stereo samples.

Some tips for non "expert" guys !
- You must manually determine the proper RR sequence due to sound realistic , you mostly have to change sample timbre of some of them
using advanced external sound editors & gear.
- TXPROG & SF2 stereo formats when imported , are converted to two KMP files with the same name , each one ending with the ‘_L’ (Left)
or ‘_R’ (Right) extension. (page 61 of new features PDF)
This is called paired stereo samples and polyphony of Pa5X is downgraded to half as in Pa4X and if you remark them in samples editor 'ST' marker is not checked.
- The only way so far to create stereo samples in Pa5X DK editor is to import Wav/Aiff stereo samples and save them , this is the only way to preserve
160 polyphony in Pa5X and that's why Pa5X DK editor is the only correct way to create DKs in Pa5X.



Hope this helps

AntonySharmman wrote:

fatih89 wrote: It is not "extremely difficult" to created RR DKs.

Read more carefully of what I wrote , talking about sampling a VST not 10 minutes of work in Pa5X with ready to go stereo samples.

Some tips for non "expert" guys !
- You must manually determine the proper RR sequence due to sound realistic , you mostly have to change sample timbre of some of them
using advanced external sound editors & gear.
- TXPROG & SF2 stereo formats when imported , are converted to two KMP files with the same name , each one ending with the ‘_L’ (Left)
or ‘_R’ (Right) extension. (page 61 of new features PDF)
This is called paired stereo samples and polyphony of Pa5X is downgraded to half as in Pa4X and if you remark them in samples editor 'ST' marker is not checked.
- The only way so far to create stereo samples in Pa5X DK editor is to import Wav/Aiff stereo samples and save them , this is the only way to preserve
160 polyphony in Pa5X and that's why Pa5X DK editor is the only correct way to create DKs in Pa5X.



Hope this helps

I already successfully resampled a drumkit with round robin samples. I used TX16Wx for auto mapping the velocity and RR layers and the key mapping. The samples are stored as true stereo samples within the Pa5X. KMP files are for multisamples only and have nothing to do with drumkits. The resampling of each RR sample for each velocity is done automatically by the DAW if the project is organized well. Of course this depends on the DAW. I use Studio One for this task (with proper markers, naming schemes of channel and volume etc.).

For me the most difficult part was to press the power button on my computer and type in the correct password for login into the system.

@Rodrigo.B let me know which VST drumkit (and preset) you want in your Pa5X. If I have that same VST I can help you out. Note that depending on how detailed the drumkit should be resampled it can take a lot of memory.

fatih89 wrote:The samples are stored as true stereo samples within the Pa5X

Explore any drumkit KSF sample you have imported as TX batch stereo samples genius and you might get a clue of what I mean.

AntonySharmman wrote:

fatih89 wrote:The samples are stored as true stereo samples within the Pa5X

Explore any drumkit KSF sample you have imported as TX batch stereo samples genius and you might get a clue of what I mean.

The samples are imported as stereo WAVE files and are not splitted into stereo pairs. If you have no clue stop talking bullshit in this forum. You can fool the ones who have no technical understanding about sound programming and sampling but not me with your garbage half-knowledge.

OK genius anything you say , I'm wasting my time , discussion is over !
My absolute target in forum for 15 years is to fool end users

Sorry Rodrigo.B for the abuse of your topic

Antony,
How is a stereo sample created? Is it a alternating Left/Right time based mono channel?

mstodola wrote:Antony,
How is a stereo sample created? Is it a alternating Left/Right time based mono channel?

To be clear , I'm under vacation for over one month , and I have not deeply explored the changes in OS v.1.3 regarding importing
SF2 & other formats so I will only mention status under OS v.1.21

All imported stereo formats like SF2 create two multisamples L & R (paired , the same is shown in Pa5X new features PDF of v.3.1)
witch means that this sound has 80 polyphony since 1 note uses 2 Sounds and KSF samples are mono as the old Korg protocol.
When you manually import and save Wav/Aiff stereo samples one by one then created KSF samples are real stereo and if you
remark samples editor those KSF samples are market as "ST" which is a trick since actually there is no stereo KSF format.
That's why when exporting stereo samples/MS , always stereo pair format KMP is exported.

Kronos sampler HD engine for instance will automatically recognize from -R/-L extensions stereo samples if ιdentical in duration and will
automatically treat them as Stereo with one only note polyphony , this is of what I expected to see in Pa5X ...


Hope this helps

I guess the process is proprietary so it is not to be known the specifics of how the process is done. I'm trying to think of all the ways this could be done. It is very interesting and creative.