Korg Forums

Hi all.

Ok, as mentioned in the M3 section, this thread is being started and will be monitored continuously in order to try help people with a few problems that can been seen on the forum recently.

Some of the topics I would like to see discussed here are....

1: Allowing people to express their opinions freely on ALL subjects, even if they are seen as non-korg pro, or not even related to KORG products. We need to work on this so the content is constructive. Being completely negative or the complete opposite does not bring anything to the community.

2: Our utmost important rule, which is equal respect to all members and the freedom of speech.

3: General forum policies and anything you would like to see changed, reviewed or enforced.

So I would like to invite you all to take part in this thread, specially those who are involved in a few threads that fall under these issues, and lets see if we can sort all this out, and find middle ground to more forward from.

I'm going to place all this in the General Music section because I would like to see people talking about non korg issues as well.

Kind Regards.
Sharp.

Okay, thanks Sharp.

First off I would like to apologize if I have offended anyone with my posts on this forum. It's certainly never been my intent to do so.

Having said that, I do feel that I have been attacked on many occasions by Martin because he doesn't like my opinions, or the way I express them. I'm sorry Martin, but last time I checked it was a free world (where many of us live anyway) and freedom of speech is not taken lightly.

What I find offensive about your attacks on me, Martin, is not that you disagree with my opinions - more power to ya, brother. It's that you begrudge me the right to voice my opinions in my own way.

Yes, I may come off sounding anti-Korg to you. Maybe that's because you seem obsessive to me in your continual defense of Korg. You'll square off with anyone who has what you perceive to be a negative slant on most any Korg product.

The fact is that I do own a lot of Korg equipment and yes I do love it, and if you say otherwise then you are calling me a liar. I own a lot of other great gear as well, and if someone asks for an opinion or comparison (as in a recent M3 thread), I'd like to feel as though I can freely have my say, without you butting in and making allegations, accusations, insinuations (and all the other "ations" you love to hurl at me).

You seem to revel in exhuming my posts, taking information from them and distorting them way beyond their original intent and meaning. Besides being overtly keen on censorship, you are also (in my opinion) a revisionist of the most frightening kind.

People like you are - in my estimation - a danger to democracy and the right to freedom of speech, Martin.

Let 'er rip...

ricky recordo wrote: Having said that, I do feel that I have been attacked on many occasions by Martin because he doesn't like my opinions, or the way I express them. I'm sorry Martin, but last time I checked it was a free world (where many of us live anyway) and freedom of speech is not taken lightly.

So let me understand, YOU have the right to say ANYTHING you want, regardless of how mean or disrespectul, but I am not allowed to respond to it?

I think you need to read more about "freedom of speech" because you obviously do not fully understand the concept. TRUE Freedom of Speech NOT ONLY allows you to "express your opinions", but EQUALLY ALLOWS ME MY FREEDOM to respond.

You are not the first person I have encountered on Internet groups who seems to feel Freedom of Speech only applies to THEIR THOUGHTS.

Yes, Ricky wants the freedom to say whatever he wants, but we should restrict Martin's freedom of response. Interesting concept, but it certainly is NOT Freedom of Speech.

You are NOT an advocate of FREE SPEECH; you are an advocate of ONE-SIDED FREE SPEECH.

I am an advocate of RESPECTFUL FREE SPEECH.

ricky recordo wrote:
It's that you begrudge me the right to voice my opinions in my own way.

Yes I don't like how you voice your opinions because many of them are extreme and disrespectful, especially in a company-specific enthusiast forum, where the majority of people believe a person should be able to express negative opinions without being so mean about it.

You could easily communicate what you believe are deficiencies in Korg products without being so mean-spirited and disrespectful. However, it appears the "power of anonymity" causes you to communicate as you do. Only you REALLY know why you choose to be so mean-spirited in your comments.

Imagine you were in a room sitting with people who actually worked on the M3 or the OASYS. Would you REALLY tell them "sorry guys, but the M3 is a toy. I am therefore moving it to the room where I keep my Nintendo Wii gaming system, since both the M3 and Wii are so similar in form and function"?

Here is another example. It appears you must derive part if not all of your income producing music. What if I were to show up at your studio and listen to some of your music (or perhaps you would like to post some original pieces here, which you have never done). ** For clarity (and because of Ricky's complaint) by "original pieces" I meant posting examples of Ricky's BEST work, work that is part of his professional catalog. Ricky HAS posted songs here, but always caveats them as "rough sketch" or "just noodling around". Ricky portraits himself as a pro musician, so I was suggesting he post some of his pro-level work **

Would it be "correct" for me to tell you in person:
-- your music completely sucks and you are a talentless hack
-- I know kindergarten students who can make better music than that
-- Many of my farts sound more musical than your songs
-- If you ever paid anyone for music lessons you received in the past you should get your money back because you were definitely robbed.

Would all of the above be ACCEPTABLE for me to say to you simply under the guise of "freedom of speech"?

At least where I was raised, that behavior would NOT be acceptable. If I didn't like your music I could easily convey that information in "nicer words", words that were more RESPECTFUL and NOT SO MEAN.

If you are an advocate of TRUE FREE SPEECH (i.e. speech without any restrictions), then you should be willing and eager to accept someone else's RESPONSE to your free speech.

ricky recordo wrote:
People like you are - in my estimation - a danger to democracy and the right to freedom of speech, Martin.

No, YOU are the "dangerous" one. You want the freedom to say whatever you want, regardless of how outrageous and mean-spirited, then RESTRICT MY FREEDOM to respond to your statements.

So which is it? Are you an advocate of FREE SPEECH (which you so proudly proclaim) or an advocate of ONE-SIDED FREE SPEECH (which is what you actually describe)?

It's surprising when seasoned pros engage in this type of non-sense.
That's why Tritonhaven dried up. Those once competing ego-maniacs ("Gurus") over there, have all left.

Martin, you're very knowledgeable and all, but you do overly defend Korg. It's quite annoying.
You act like you work for Korg, even more than the guys that do work for them.
If you worked for them, people could understand your defense.
You should go back and look at some of your posts, which can be quite snippy and nasty.
What are you, their ambassador or something?
Tone the ego down.
You probably should go back to Tritonhaven, which you're practically non-existent on and continue the havoc over there.
With all the "Gurus" gone, you should be happy to have it all to yourself.

SG6 wrote:Martin, you're very knowledgeable and all, but you do overly defend Korg. It's quite annoying..

It's unfortunate you find my comments annoying. I do like Korg products, but I also like other products as well.

You seemed to have learned an awful lot about me in only 4 days (the length of time you have been a forum member).

SG6 wrote: You act like you work for Korg, even more than the guys that do work for them. If you worked for them, people could understand your defense.

It's surprising when seasoned pros engage in this type of non-sense.

It has been well established that I do not work for Korg, but merely a Korg enthusiast. I am definitely not a "seasoned pro musician", but rather a music hobbyist.

SG6 wrote: You should go back and look at some of your posts, which can be quite snippy and nasty.
What are you, their ambassador or something?
Tone the ego down.

Is it "ego" to try to get people to present their negative opinions in a respectful and non mean-spirited way? I don't think so.

I respond to people based on respect, until I feel they no longer deserve respect. Respect should be earned. If you want a "true perspective" go back and read every post Ricky Recordo has ever made. If you do, I think you will better understand the level of respect Ricky has not earned.

I post under my real name, so I am always extremely aware of every statement I make. Someone like Ricky (or yourself for that matter) can say anything they want without being truly accountable for their words. However, with me, I have to be accountable since my ID IS my name (OK it's actually "Martin Hines" not "MartinHines" but I assume most people can figure that out).

SG6 wrote: You probably should go back to Tritonhaven, which you're practically non-existent on and continue the havoc over there.

Do I know you? What other forum names/monikers have you used in the past? Given you joined this forum FOUR DAYS AGO and only have 4 posts, and given your comments, I strongly believe you are NOT really a NEW member.

Please list the other forums in which you are a member and the names/monikers you have used on each. If you tell me who you REALLY are, I might be able to respond better to your unique post.

I personally would like to see forums where people are required to provide their real contact information and then be forced to post under their real names. I suspect many comments some people make would be drastically different if their peers/family/co-workers were aware.

It's not important. None of it is.
I just stated my opinion. Something I thought needed to be said. But it's just that, my opinion.
No, I'm not a newcomer to forums. Yes, I use different monikers.
I said my peace. I'm done and I'll move on. Hopefully, everyone else can too.
This is my last post on this subject.
I'm not one to keep adding fuel to a fire.

In the sacred name of free speech:

Martin I appreciate your opinion. You are far nicer to Senior Recordo than I could be. That is why I am often silent.

It is not surprising that he pounced on this post in order to try to trash your opinion.

My 2c. Martin, you are an inspiration to me and many others as well, but I dont think that you should try to correct a persons way of expessing themself. My comments are far lighter than some but thats me. If we start to measure comments, other than personal, who is to say whats too harsh, me, you? I wonder like hell how could anyone pay 2000.00+ for something that doesnt "seem" to bring them satisfaction, but thats all I do is wonder becausee it is thier poragative thier money. You can say what you want about my equiptment as long as it is not about me personaly I am cool with it. Do i agree with his comments, some. Do I like his aproach, not particularly, but he is talking about a "thing" not a "person" so, it should be taken as, not person(al) but opinion no matter how harsh. Hear is the problem, he is actually talking about his instrument, but you are talking about him, talking about, his istrument. How he see his Korg is how he see his Korg. I personaly dont agree but thats why we have opinions

I just wonder why Sharp opened this thread... I think that it would be more useful to avoid this. A better way is to solve your personal problem by pm and not here in pubblic. This is the best forum I could find and I wouldn't like to see thread like this here around, since the "battle" involve only two people and not all the comunity... Anyway, I'm not the moderator here and Sharp should have had good reason to open this thread...

I dont know Lorenzo, think about it, not only did he give them a place to vent, he also allowed for other korg members to view and or comment, only if they desire too. At the same time they can totally avoid it all together. It is your choice. Example, I chose to punch into this " particular thread" with full knowlege of its possible contents. Why well, curious or nosey. Why did you choose to take this rought?

yes, I can see the reason for a thread like this... but since I didn't follow the argument between martin and ricky I just see a "moderated typical internet forum argument" here, I don't want to take part of it in fact I write here not to take the part of one of the two guys, but just to understand if this way to solve this problem could be the right one... do you think that one of the two guys could solve the problem writing here his reasons? I really don't think so, this is why I think that this isn't a useful thread... anyway I can be wrong, so I leave Sharp or Daz who has many more experience than me in moderating a forum the decisions here...

Hi Lorenzo.

I just wonder why Sharp opened this thread... I think that it would be more useful to avoid this.

I started this because you cannot fix a problem by ignoring it. Trust me, this needed to be done, and the outcome will be far better than the existing situation being ignored.

While I hope people can solve their differences, I can also see that I need to do something here and when the time comes, I will get involved.

I won't be taking sides either.

but since I didn't follow the argument between martin and ricky I just see a "moderated typical internet forum argument"

Who said it was for just for Ricky and Martin? I can assure you it's not.
Ricky and Martin are just the first to bring things out in the open. Which I'm delighted to see, and I will be getting involved in all this myself.

Regards.
Sharp.

I started this because you cannot fix a problem by ignoring it. Trust me, this needed to be done, and the outcome will be far better than the existing situation being ignored.

While I hope people can solve their differences, I can also see that I need to do something here and when the time comes, I will get involved.

I won't be taking sides either.

now I understand your point of view.

Who said it was for just for Ricky and Martin? I can assure you it's not.
Ricky and Martin are just the first to bring things out in the open. Which I'm delighted to see, and I will be getting involved in all this myself.

oh! so this is a general thread... I had misunderstood this, now, in this case it can be a useful thread for sure. I thought this was just to solve the problem between the two guys...
it seems that my bad english make me misunderstood the whole thing here...
regards, Lorenzo

My first comments.

1: Martin does not work for KORG, and he would not be allowed to behave as if he did. So, end of story. He's a regular member just like everyone else.

2: SG6.... Accusing a guy of having ego problems is not constructive, nor is it really respectful. There are better ways to suggest that someone is “passionate” about a given subject. Sounds much better doesn't it It's also much kinder and it shows concern in a nice way, rather than a insulting way.

3: Respect must be shown in this thread at all times, otherwise this will all end in an argument that will not be resolved. Just like I demonstrated that you could take the word ego and replace it with passionate. Both say the same thing, but one shows concern and respect. You wouldn't be taking part in this thread in the first place if you didn't have some respect for the other person your directing your comments at. So it's nice to be nice.

4: Regarding freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to do so regardless of what side your taking on any given subject. However, people need to know where to draw the line. There is a point where freedom of speech turns into Trolling, and in conflict with the harmony of the community. This simply means, you can make your point no matter what it is, but it does not give you the right to repeat your self in every thread, or chase after certain people all the time on the forum who have a difference of opinion. In this case, those in question need to sort it out, or they will be moderated.

As we have seen in the past with the heavy OASYS threads. It wasn't that they where anti-aosys, it was that those involved took every single opportunity to destroy every thread that started up by reposting all the same comments, and constantly arguing.

Ok, that's all I'm saying for now. So far I'm happy with the way this thread is going in general, but I would like to see others getting involved as there is more than just Ricky and Martin involved.

Regards.
Sharp.