Harmonizer working with midi files

ranlomer · Post by **ranlomer** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:43 pm

Is it possible to use the vocal harmonizer when playing midi files on the PA800 or PA2xPro. I just purchased a Pa2xPro and can't seem to get the harmonizer to work with midi files.

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:13 pm

I think you are right!

With the OS 1.6 of PA800, it is not working any more! [Not with midi! And do not with out a playing style].

The only way it is working is when you are playing a style!

It did not work like that at the earlier OS!

PAOLO- can you reply? Please?

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:52 pm

I can't test on Pa800, but OS1.60 on the Pa800 and OS1.11 on the Pa2x are almost identical. Vocal harmonies work very nicely on the Pa2x either played from live playing (no Styles playing) in Style Play mode when the chord for vocal harmony is recognised fine, or from playing MIDI files in song play mode. Avi, you say in OS1.60 "its not working any more". In what version did it work? Have you set up the track and harmony channels and global settings exactly the same way ?

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:15 pm

Rob Sherratt wrote:I can't test on Pa800, but OS1.60 on the Pa800 and OS1.11 on the Pa2x are almost identical. Vocal harmonies work very nicely on the Pa2x either played from live playing (no Styles playing) in Style Play mode when the chord for vocal harmony is recognised fine, or from playing MIDI files in song play mode. Avi, you say in OS1.60 "its not working any more". In what version did it work? Have you set up the track and harmony channels and global settings exactly the same way ?

HI ROB-

With all the old OS I did not need to setup anything, it just was working if you will press on the harmony button.
I will be happy to know that it is not a BUG,
If there are new setup to do with the KB, just tell me what, and I will check if it is like that in my KB. please...

miden · Post by **miden** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:20 pm

Avi, if you look in my post on setting-up playing midis, there is a section in that which explains about setting up the harmoniser.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=36187

I have pasted in the relevant sections below, in case you do not want to read the whole thing !!;)
Dennis

PS if you want some further help, just let me know.

********************************************************
2. If you want to use note data in an SMF to drive the harmoniser, press the MIDI IN CONTROL tab that is along the bottom of the screen (tab2) . This is the page where you set this parameter.

You might notice that it is already set to channel 5, and this is because under the GM2 specification, channel 5 is designated as the channel to carry harmonising data, channel 4 is for melody note information, channel 2 for bass and channel 10 for drums.

If you have harmonising data on a different channel (in my case it is always channel 15) you need to set this channel here. I also have the Octave Transpose set to 0, as in my view it gives a better harmoniser performance.
There is also a setting in the SONGBOOK which I will cover in part three.

However, there is another option.
If you set this to GLOBAL, the harmonies are then generated from what you play on the keyboard (depending on the chord scanning option selected) INSTEAD of the SMF.

I am also assuming most people know about the options that can be saved on tab BOOK-EDIT 1, but it is on tab BOOK-EDIT 2 that I want to go, and this references a previous instruction on the harmoniser.

You must also set the harmoniser here to be either the channel previously selected as the harmony channel, OR as the GLOBAL option.
If these don't match the harmonies will not be sent to the Helicon Harmoniser.

This needs to be saved on a song by song basis if you need to vary it, and this setting OVER-RIDES those present in the GLOBAL SONG-PLAY saved from the previous tutorial.

In other words, if nothing is saved here the PA will look to the GLOBAL SONG-PLAY setup for what to do with harmonies if you just play songs from the hard drive/thumb drive without using the Songbook.

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 pm

miden wrote:Avi, if you look in my post on setting-up playing midis, there is a section in that which explains about setting up the harmoniser.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=36187

I have pasted in the relevant sections below, in case you do not want to read the whole thing !!;)
Dennis

PS if you want some further help, just let me know.

********************************************************
2. If you want to use note data in an SMF to drive the harmoniser, press the MIDI IN CONTROL tab that is along the bottom of the screen (tab2) . This is the page where you set this parameter.

You might notice that it is already set to channel 5, and this is because under the GM2 specification, channel 5 is designated as the channel to carry harmonising data, channel 4 is for melody note information, channel 2 for bass and channel 10 for drums.

If you have harmonising data on a different channel (in my case it is always channel 15) you need to set this channel here. I also have the Octave Transpose set to 0, as in my view it gives a better harmoniser performance.
There is also a setting in the SONGBOOK which I will cover in part three.

However, there is another option.
If you set this to GLOBAL, the harmonies are then generated from what you play on the keyboard (depending on the chord scanning option selected) INSTEAD of the SMF.

I am also assuming most people know about the options that can be saved on tab BOOK-EDIT 1, but it is on tab BOOK-EDIT 2 that I want to go, and this references a previous instruction on the harmoniser.

You must also set the harmoniser here to be either the channel previously selected as the harmony channel, OR as the GLOBAL option.
If these don't match the harmonies will not be sent to the Helicon Harmoniser.

This needs to be saved on a song by song basis if you need to vary it, and this setting OVER-RIDES those present in the GLOBAL SONG-PLAY saved from the previous tutorial.

In other words, if nothing is saved here the PA will look to the GLOBAL SONG-PLAY setup for what to do with harmonies if you just play songs from the hard drive/thumb drive without using the Songbook.

YES it is long..

But I was speaking about the KB it self. [There are speakers on the PA800...],
Not with using an external sequencer,
Am I right, that there are no need to setup the KB then?
In all the old OS it was working with out changing the setup.
And I do not know about some thing that is not good in the setup,
Can you say simpley [not complicated\long

], what do i need to check?

miden · Post by **miden** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:57 pm

Avi,
What comes out the speakers is exactly the same as what comes out the L/R outs.

What do you want to do?

Do you want the data for the harmoniser to come from a midi file? OR from your keyboard playing?

Lets do this one step at a time..

Dennis

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:20 am

That’s going to be long night…

Let start from the beginning-

We are speaking about- vocal harmonizer when playing midi files on the PA800 or PA2xPro.

We just want to hear the harmony of the TC-helicon when singing-

[We do not speaking about the Ensemble option].

Are we speaking on the same subject?

If yes- there is a new fact with my PA800.
In the old OS you just press the "harmony" button [Mic seting] AND IT IS WORKING WITH ALL [-With midi, with out midi or style, And with a style], and you do not need to setup anything.

With the OS 1.6 of PA800, it is not working any more! [Not with midi! And do not with out a playing style].

UPDATE-
The only way it is working is when you are pressing on the lower when playing a style! [and it is working with out to make any setup...]

And after a lot of playing with the setup, to save them again and again, now it is working with midi [and song book] like in style play- only after you press the lower.
It seems that the lower turn on the TC-helicon, and his button not.
[By the way- all the global setup was exactly as you said.[chanel 5... how do i need to know if the harmonising data on a different channel? ]

maybe I just need to reload my OS,
If some one with the PA800 was checking it before to do it, it was good,
I will need to backup a lot of data.... .
Maybe tomorrow.

It did not work like that at the earlier OS!

miden · Post by **miden** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Avi does the midi file have the notes to send to the harmoniser, or are you playing the notes yourself?

You are aware that if using the keyboard itself to generate the harmony notes it ONLY read them from whatever CHORD SCANNING area you have set.

If the chord scanning is set as lower then it will only read notes (chords) from there. If it is set to upper, it will read from there. If set for whole keyboard it will read notes from the whole keyboard.

I think you will find that the TC Helicon preset (factory) and the first one, is set to chordal mode (required if you are wanting harmony to generate from the keyboard) or notes mode also works. But not scalic or shift, whihc are the modes used whne the harmoniser uses the audio input, with no actual note information.

Also ensure latch is on if you want the carry the harmony from the last chord/notes played even when you take your hand from the keyboard.

The channel is ONLY needed if you are using a midi file to send chord/note info to the harmoniser.

Dennis

Cousin Ken · Post by **Cousin Ken** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:43 am

Do you have to have the chords embedded, like with the PSR3000,in midi's to have the Harmoniser work in the pa800.

Cousin Ken

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Cousin Ken wrote:Do you have to have the chords embedded, like with the PSR3000,in midi's to have the Harmoniser work in the pa800. Cousin Ken

Hi Ken,

You can choose which track in a MID/ SMF file is used to generate the vocal harmony. You get better harmonies if the track has mostly held chords in close formation, but it's not essential. Imagine playing the keyboard in whatever chord scanning mode you prefer. What would you play on the keyboard to ensure the correct chords are recognised? That's what you need in the MIDI track. You can record UPPER1 or LOWER to the sequencer and play it back so that the track you recorded it on will generate exactly the same harmony for vocals. The harmony track at playback time is selected either from an entry in the Songbook (if you are using the Songbook to load your MID/ SMF file) or in Song Play -> Preferences -> Track Settings.

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:56 pm

Just to UPDATE
I have reloaded the OS+RES 1.6 [+format…], and check it immediately,
The problem is there.

[With TC-HELICON now it even dos not work even when pressing on the lower].

I will check your suggestions later and I will update what happened.

Just one question for other PA800 users,

As I know with all the old OS I did not need to setup anything!
Turning on the KB, press the "harmony" button, and it is working [TC-HELICON] in the mic, I am hearing the harmony of other voices there.
-With style, with out style, and with midi.

Dos it working like that with your PA800 with the 1.6 OS, or not?
Please- it is a simple thing to check.

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:00 pm

Avi,

The first TC-HELICON vocal preset is for solo voice. Does preset 2 or some of the other presets work?

AVI6520 · Post by **AVI6520** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:01 pm

Rob Sherratt wrote:Avi,

The first TC-HELICON vocal preset is for solo voice. Does preset 2 or some of the other presets work?

ROB-Thanks for the replay...

Yes- thay are work.
If it is for solo voice- way it is not work "solo" too, [as I see...]?
[By the way maybe i do not know what is exactly solo or not solo, can you be specific].
And way in the past [old OS] it was working with out conditions?

miden · Post by **miden** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:22 pm

Avi,
I just had a thought..you said you reloaded the operating system.. Did you also re-load the resources package as well?

Because if you have changed the original TC Helicon 1, on your previous sytem and saved over it, just a OS re-instal will not change that, you would also need to re-install the resources pack as well to replace the original harmioniser presets.

You may have already done this, if so forgive the suggestion, but I thought I would make it anyway.

Dennis