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What is considered BUGS by Development groups

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:37 pm
by Lee
I started this as to try to help a little as to what are BUGS???and what are NOT.

It is an attempt to get us all on the same page when communicating with each other, especially with Korg Development.

Based on my significant experience in hardware desgn and service, firmware design and trouble shooting ...and of course operating system tech. service and debug I offer some things to consider about BUGS.

Bugs are:
A) Documented 'functions' in a machine that do not work as described
B) Things that happen in a machine that are not supposed to while doing supported 'functions'. In other words unexpected behavior.
C) Instability in operation in general...Freezes, crashes, slow operations when they should be fast, non responsiveness to buttons/controls, etc.
D) Things (sounds for example) that have undesireable short commings of lower quality than expected or advertised is in my opinion are bugs...like some of the SAX (and other) sound problems in the PA today. This one may be borderlne as to being a bug? Maybe just more of a quality issue?

Bugs can be in the hardware (like keys that don't respond properly, intermittent switches etc) Firmware (for practical purposes is the same as hardware except it is software that directly determines hardware function) and software or OS (Functions that do not do as they are documented to work).

Hardware problems/bugs can be intermittent.Software bugs are not...so given the exact same set of conditions they fail solid...meaning every time (with the exception of some firmware timing considerations)

Bugs are NOT:
A) Functions you want to work differently than they are designed to work today.
B) Missing capabilities you would like.
C) Design that does not allow for us to use the machine as we would like (SET file stucture issue as an example)
D) Design issues that make us do things the hard way..instead of a better way.
B) Limitations in memory, expansion, lack of new styles, lack of new sounds etc.
C) Something that you so obviously think should work one way...when they in fact work a different way...but do work.

These we call change requests or marketing requirements considerations. They are not truely bugs but some of us would see it that way...development management and programers do not.

So in summary...all bugs should be reported AND documentation provided as to how to make it fail/or how to reproduce the problem. If the development people do not have enough details as to the failure and how to reproduce it...thay will have a tough time fixing it for us.

All change requests should be documented with a scenario as to why it is an improvement and hopefully for the majority of users not just one. It would be nice if out group could put a requirements document together and include some sort of priority, even though development will do their own priority based on complexity/time/importance and if it makes the product generally better for a large group of users...AND makes them more competative through a better product.

The development team has sharp people with a limited amount of time and budget I'm sure, so I would hope we could all agree on the most important things we want/need. That won't be easy in some cases :-)

Once again this is just my input for thought based on 40+ years in different capacities at IBM. Others certainly may have some different opinions...just tying to help us with out communications.

Lee

Re: What is considered BUGS by Development groups

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:49 pm
by iaoranaemaeva
+1 Lee :)
Perhaps we could add, as usual in software industry, an Anomaly category, e.g. for behaviours that do not conform to other ones in the same context, or to the accepted standards...

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:59 pm
by Lee
iaoranaemaeva,
Actually that would still be a change request, since it is not a bug...it is just something some/all of us may think should be different than it is.

Even though it may well be a well justified change since it is not 'normal' functinality....as compared to other machines
Lee

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:37 pm
by karmathanever
Great post Lee - thanks.

I hope it clears up the obvious ongoing confusion regarding "bugs" "wish-lists" and "features".

Well for me personally....
...all I hope now is that Korg continue to provide the support & development of our arrangers. If I was in the Italian team, I would be pretty dejected and annoyed right now having spent all the time and effort to fix issues, create new features, make an exciting new release announcement and then get heaps of complaints about it BEFORE it is released to the public. How can one complain about something one hasn't got. Yes, I hear some saying they want to know what has been fixed/updated/added/removed and this will be clear when the OS is released - November!!

Some do not appreciate how lucky we are with Korg (as Sharp has pointed out a few times before)....

Some are biting the hand that feeds us.... - result - no more food - and we all lose out !!!!

Just my views and opinion....

Cheers

Pete :D

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:02 am
by AVI6520
Great post, Very good- Lee :lol: 8)

But I think that if it will not stay "sticky", we will see more "bugs" post, from the members that mist this post... . :idea:

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:06 am
by Lee
Pete,
So right...Let's see hat is in OS2...remember there MAY be some ice surprises...If they were not sure they could get them 100% they may have not mentioned them?

Anyway the GLASS IS HALF FULL NOT HALF EMPTY!

I just bet it will be superb...
Lee

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:07 am
by Lee
Avi...Very good point...

ADMIN IF YOU THINK IT WARRANTS.....PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY...

Thanks,
Lee

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:30 am
by AVI6520
Lee wrote:Avi...Very good point...

ADMIN IF YOU THINK IT WARRANTS.....PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY...

Thanks,
Lee
And maybe to make a sticky post like –"report of things that seems to be bugs" with lee explanation at the start of it, and it will be good for ever and for KORG too, :idea:
And with it to make another one "sticky" likes-"suggestion and wishes- PA500\800\2X". :idea:

It will save a lot of mess to the forum, to the members, and to KORG….
There were a few times suggestions like that- way here there is no replay for it? :roll:
In the M3 forum it's working well with it!

Das? Sharp? Karmathanever? Hello? Any body is there? :roll:

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:26 am
by mrkorg
karmathanever wrote:Well for me personally....
...all I hope now is that Korg continue to provide the support & development of our arrangers. If I was in the Italian team, I would be pretty dejected and annoyed right now having spent all the time and effort to fix issues, create new features, make an exciting new release announcement and then get heaps of complaints about it BEFORE it is released to the public. How can one complain about something one hasn't got. Yes, I hear some saying they want to know what has been fixed/updated/added/removed and this will be clear when the OS is released - November!!

Some do not appreciate how lucky we are with Korg (as Sharp has pointed out a few times before)....

Some are biting the hand that feeds us.... - result - no more food - and we all lose out !!!!
=D> =D> =D>

Hats off to pete. If moderators can warn members who decide to post nothing other than complaints and ban them if they refuse to comply. People should go and see other companies and the way they operate and see how fortunate we are to have Korg by our side. If some people keep up thier complaints we won't be getting anything anymore.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:28 am
by mrkorg
Pete,

You are a moderator, any suggestions?

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:55 am
by karmathanever
There - made this a sticky for a while at your request :D
Pete

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:19 am
by karmathanever
MrKorg wrote:If moderators can warn members who decide to post nothing other than complaints and ban them if they refuse to comply. People should go and see other companies and the way they operate and see how fortunate we are to have Korg by our side. If some people keep up thier complaints we won't be getting anything anymore.
Pete,

You are a moderator, any suggestions?
I think I made my feelings clear above but this is a forum for all to openly express their opinions/griefs/concerns and praises. So it may been seen to be unfair to restrict members' comments.

My best suggestion is for all who have any praises, commendations etc for Korg - PLEASE lets hear them constantly. It is still important however to hear about potential issues and bugs as they could affect us all - especially on that GIG. My main irritation was regarding the complaints about an OS we don't yet have....

Nice thought though MrKorg
AVI6520 wrote:And maybe to make a sticky post like –"report of things that seems to be bugs" with lee explanation at the start of it, and it will be good for ever and for KORG too
Yes AVI perhaps a good suggestion - let's wait for OS 2 first and see what Korg have already done. Then later, such a post may assist in further development by the Korg team.

Cheers

Pete :D

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:12 am
by mrkorg
Thanks Pete,

I agree that bugs, opinions and problems should be expressed or disccued, my main point is that some members who just post complaints and negative comments on Korg products. Some of them no longer use Korg products and just make appearances on the boards to attack the company.

Anyway you are the moderator you know what's best. :)

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:52 am
by macboy
Great post Lee, finally someone put on paper what was in the minds of a lot of us: superb writing :lol:

Well, the best thing is with a sticky, to put all the bug reports that are trully a bug in the opening post, which you have to edit once in a while.

However, I see no one already mentioning some bugs :) Come on people, start reporting now!

Mrkorg: banning people is ridiculous. If someone hates Korg, why wouldn't he have the right to state that ? Don't exagerate as if there are people making Korg black with no interest, starting such a post and then leaving again ;)

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:32 am
by karmathanever
macboy wrote:However, I see no one already mentioning some bugs - Come on people, start reporting now!
PLEASE DO NOT ADD BUGS TO THIS THREAD....

This post was set as a sticky to enable members to review Lee's DEFINITION of "What is considered BUGS by Development groups".
I do not think it is wise to start adding heaps of "bug" posts here....

We should consider a dedicated "Problem List (i.e. potential bugs)" thread as a convenience and feedback to Korg (as has already been suggested)

There are already so many threads with "feedback" and concerns that it is hard to collate them all so (for what it is worth)
here are my suggestions:-

1. Find out from Korg exactly what detail they need (bug description) - perhaps we (including Korg) can create a reporting template for the thread
2. Not start such a thread UNTIL we have all had a chance to review and use OS 2.0 else we could be wasting time on already resolved issues.
3. The thread (sticky) should be monitored and managed appropriately (i.e. appropriately move any posts which are not "bug" related)
4. Only retain posts that conform to the "reporting" template (that means same as 3. above - move unrelated posts to appropriate threads)
5. Out of courtesy, I would like to get Korg's approval/acceptance of this before we start

Remember, if Korg agree, we would be reporting issues for Korg. Their preference may be a simple description which they could later request finer details if necessary.

(A potential bug is something that does not work according to Korg's specifications - I personally do not have any "bugs" to report so far....)

Cheers

Pete :D