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Hi
Is it possible to assign sound upper 1,2 and 3 to the breath controller. I tried everything in the MIDI In and out but nothing worked.
I got as close as activating either upper 1, 2 or 3 each time but couldn't do anything to controll the 3 of them together at once with the breath controller.
is this even possible?

Thanks

Nima[/b]

Yes I believe that it is possible. No I don't have a breath controller so can't test it. But this is what I would do ...

Say Upper 1, 2, and 3 are on MIDI channels 1, 2, and 3.

Say your breath controller is generating events on MIDI channel 1, and so is the Pa2x/Pa800 keybed.

On the Pa2x/Pa800 go to the Global -> MIDI IN Channel screen, and set MIDI channel 1 to "Global" and then do a "Write MIDI Setup" from the drop down menu. You can call the setup "Breath Control" if you like.

Then in Style Play mode, ensure that youur "Breath Control" MIDI setup is selected and that your breath controller is outputting on Channel 1. It will now control Upper 1, 2 and 3 in just the same way that notes from the Pa2x/Pa800 keybed are sent to all of Upper 1, 2, and 3.

Great explanation Rob. You sure have a lot of knowledge !

(even if it doesn't work )

Hello Nima,

Assuming you are using a Yamaha BCxx into a MIDI Solutions Breath Controller device:

The default settings for the MIDI Solutions unit is to transmit incoming breath control on MIDI channel 1, the MIDI Continuous Controller # that is transmitted is CC#7 (Volume). I think the default MIDI IN channel on the PAxx for Upper 1 Sound is MIDI channel 1. You should be able to just plug it in and it should work. By the way, it is possible to re-program the MIDI Solutions Breath Controller device to transmit any MIDI CC# on any MIDI channel as well as changing other settings by sending appropriate system exclusive messages into the unit via a computer. (very easy to do). Of course if you do change the CC# being transmitted you will also have to program 1 or more sounds in you PAxx to respond to the chosen CC#. The cool thing about this is that instead of simply controlling volume, you could assign the BC to filter cutoff and amplitude so that when you blow not only would the sound get louder, but it would also get brighter, very nice when using a brass or woodwind sound. Or assign BC to LFO depth, or just about anything else you can think of. Not being completely familiar with the controller routing capabilities of the PA series yet, I don't know just how far you can take this idea, but I'm sure Rob or someone else will jump in with that information if you ask for it.

One thing that you may be missing though is that the MIDI Solutions unit requires power. This is accomplished by tapping into the 5 volts generated at the MIDI OUT of the connected controller keyboard. Since your controller keyboard and your sound source are one in the same, you will need to use one MIDI cable coming out of your PAxx going into the MIDI Solutions unit, and another coming from the MIDI Solutions unit going back into your PAxx. NOTE: Before connecting the MIDI cables, be sure to turn MIDI Local OFF on the keyboard or a MIDI loop will be created that can cause all sorts of strange problems.

Best Regards,

Dave
new proud owner of a PA588

The default settings for the MIDI Solutions unit is to transmit incoming breath control on MIDI channel 1, the MIDI Continuous Controller # that is transmitted is CC#7 (Volume). I think the default MIDI IN channel on the PAxx for Upper 1 Sound is MIDI channel 1. You should be able to just plug it in and it should work.

Hi Dave et al,

Yes it will work but for channel 1 track 1 only. Nima wants the BC to control all three upper tracks 1, 2 and 3 at the same time. To achieve that see my post above. You have to configure the Pa keyboard so that MIDI channel 1 is set to Global, not the default setting.

Regards,
Rob

Thanks alot guys, I really appreciate it.
I will try it Rob thanks man.

Hi Rob,

You are correct, I forgot that he wanted to control Upp 1, 2 & 3 simultaneously.

But still, he will need to connect both MIDI IN and OUT between the keyboard and Breath Controller unit and turn Local OFF on the keyboard in order for the Breath Controller unit to power up. Again assuming he is using a MIDI Solutions device (or an Anatek Wind Machine from years ago).

Best Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Forgive me for not knowing the answer to this, but please could you explain the function of the second MIDI cable (ie OUT from Pa to In on the MS box) in the context of the MIDI solutions/ BC equipment?

I don't understand what data is needed, normally it's only needed for sequencers that require MIDI clock sync from the Pa, and in the case of the MS box I can's see why it would need that.

OR ... could it be that it needs more power than a single MIDI interface can source? If so gimme batteries rather than have to solve MIDI looping.

Best regards,
Rob

Rob Sherratt wrote:Hi Dave,

Forgive me for not knowing the answer to this, but please could you explain the function of the second MIDI cable (ie OUT from Pa to In on the MS box) in the context of the MIDI solutions/ BC equipment?
...
Best regards,
Rob

Hi Rob,

The MIDI Solutions devices require power as did the old Anatek pocket products (if anyone remembers those). Because the typical use of one of these specialized units involves a keyboard controller connected to a MIDI sound module, it was obvious to design the device to be inserted in between the MIDI out of the controller and the MIDI IN of the receiving module. While these devices could have been battery powered, it seemed better to just use the voltage that is already present at the MIDI output to power the unit. This way, no expense for batteries or the possibly of a depleted battery during a performance.

If the intention is to use one of these devices with just a single keyboard (controller and sound source in one), then you have to figure out how to get power to the device. This can be accomplished either by doing what I have suggested, which will work just fine without any hassle, AS LONG AS MIDI Local is turned OFF prior to connecting the MIDI cables. Or another option is to purchase a MIDI Solutions Power Adapter. This way the power adapter plugs into an A/C outlet and a short MIDI cable from the Thru-put of the power adapter to the MIDI In of the Breath Controller or any other MIDI Solutions device. Problem solved.

Hi David,

That explains it - many thanks. Of course I should have realized that any device using power over MIDI needs to draw power from a MIDI OUT port - there is no line driver on a MIDI IN port! ... I feel a bit stupid over this.

You are absolutely correct also that there is a potential MIDI loop problem. I would not use LOCAL OFF though. I would do it another way by setting up a MIDI Filter on all MIDI IN channels to block everything (ie set up GLOBAL - MIDI - FILTERS - MIDI IN filters (up to to the following parameters:

1 Pitch Bend
2 MonoTouch
3 PolyTouch
4 PrgChange
5 SysExcl
6 All CC
7 Notes
8 Off

Then save the MIDI Setup as per my earlier message.

The reason I'd do it this way instead of turning LOCAL OFF and relying on the keybed output looping through the MIDI Solutions box is that the above method will avoid the latency of the MIDI loop, which can be a problem especially when recording the resulting audio.

Best regards,
Rob

Rob Sherratt wrote:Hi David,

That explains it - many thanks. ...
You are absolutely correct also that there is a potential MIDI loop problem. I would not use LOCAL OFF though. I would do it another way by setting up a MIDI Filter on all MIDI IN channels to block everything (ie set up GLOBAL - MIDI - FILTERS - MIDI IN filters (up to to the following parameters:

1 Pitch Bend
2 MonoTouch
3 PolyTouch
4 PrgChange
5 SysExcl
6 All CC
7 Notes
8 Off

Then save the MIDI Setup as per my earlier message.
...
Best regards,
Rob

Hi Rob,

I may be missing something but if you include 'All CC' messages in the MIDI IN filter, wouldn't that also filter out controller 7 (volume) or whatever CC# Nima decides to have the Breath Controller transmit? I do understand your point on the delay created by going in and out of two MIDI ports. Then again that only translates into 6 milliseconds.

Best Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Yep I should not have suggested filtering the CC messages so the filter 6 should be set to off.

I don't know what latency the Midi Solutions box introduces in its turnaround from MIDI IN to MIDI OUT, I suspect a lot more than 6ms unless you tell me you measured it or that you are the design engineer (which from your knowledge I think might be likely!). From a PC sequencer the PC based latency the latency is pretty dire and is definitely audible if you rely on looped notes to play the keyboard. That's really what I was going on.

Best regards,
Rob

Rob Sherratt wrote:Hi Dave,

Yep I should not have suggested filtering the CC messages so the filter 6 should be set to off.

I don't know what latency the Midi Solutions box introduces in its turnaround from MIDI IN to MIDI OUT, I suspect a lot more than 6ms unless you tell me you measured it or that you are the design engineer (which from your knowledge I think might be likely!). From a PC sequencer the PC based latency the latency is pretty dire and is definitely audible if you rely on looped notes to play the keyboard. That's really what I was going on.

Best regards,
Rob

Hi Rob,

Well I go along with you on it being better to avoid the MIDI loop idea all together if possible. If there is a way to filter everything but one specific CC# then that's the way to go. Regarding the delay, I was basing the 6ms on the fact that a MIDI jack has an inherent 3ms delay. I can't remember if that is just on the IN or OUT or both; so I suppose it is possible that my figure of 6ms is wrong and it should be 12ms. As for any delay caused by the MIDI Solutions unit itself, because it is only inserting one CC# message into the otherwise untouched data stream, my guess is any additional delay would be negligible. Might be worth a call or e-mail to MIDI Solutions. John Fast, the owner/designer of the MIDI Solution devices is a very nice fellow and happy to answer questions about his products.

Anyway, back to the MIDI filtering option, specifically 'Filter 6 - All CC'. My fear would be that doing this, with MIDI Local still turned ON, any continuous controller movement would be multiplied via the MIDI loop created by going in and out of the PA and Breath Controller as I suggested. In other words, if the player happened to touch the mod wheel (lever) or apply aftertouch, or move an assignable slider, the results would certainly be more than expected if you know what I mean.

After this discussion, I think the best route is to use the Power Adapter along with the Breath Controller. This way the BC data can be sent into the instrument without any additional MIDI settings being made.

Best Regards,

Dave