changing styles with external MIDI

[mercergate]

Is it possible to change style play via MIDI on a PC. Iwant to have a cool style play groove running while SONAR is running on my PC. It has 16 Midi tracks approprately assigned. One through 16. All in record mode. I want to be jamming on top of 1 style, switch to another for the bridge, and then back to the original syle. I would like each instrument to be recorded by Sonar on it's own track so I can go in and edit it. Then I want to hit play on Sonar and have the 16 tracks on the pc play the proper parts on the keyboard. Especially the accompianment parts, with the right sounds. And switch to the new style automatically at the bridge, (when I switched it while playing.) I have been trying to do this for months. I have read the book many times. Why can't I do this? When I hit playback I get a total cacophany. Especially too many Bass Drums. Doesn't the PA 2x send out any type of sysex or patch change info when I switch Styles? And you would think each of the 16 tracks would receive a message to go to the right sound as soon as I select a new style. The sounds that are assigned to that particular style. Does anyone have any idea what i'm talking about? I,ve tried many different "current MIDI setup" to no avail. HELP!!!

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi mercergate,

To answer a few of your questions:

a) The Pa2x sends bank and style change messages when you change styles or if the patch changes when you change variations.

b) The Pa2x does not send bank and style change messages when you hit the start or stop key. Therefore when I am recording to Sonar I press start and I immediately change the style to ensure the bank and prog change messages are sent. I use Tempo Lock to make sure the tempo stays fixed. Note that it is necessary to allow the Style change to also change the Upper tracks to ensure that bank and prog change messages are sent for Upper 1, Upper 2, etc. If any tracks are muted, no messages are sent.

c) I suggest you use MIDIOX on your PC in the first instance to monitor and display the MIDI messages being received from the Pa2x, and you will see exactly when bank and prog change messages are being transmitted.

d) To record from the Pa2x in Style Play mode, you need to use the Default MIDI Setup where all the Style Play channels are mapped to MIDI output channels. If you use a Song Play setup then Style play channels will not be sent.

e) When you play back from Sonar to the Pa2x, the default MIDI Setup works fine. It assumes the external sequencer will transmit on MIDI channels 1 to 16, which are mapped to Player1 tracks 1 to 16. The Pa2x needs to be switched to Song Play mode for playback from Sonar.

Anyway, that's what I do and it works fine with Sonar! Although I've now switched to using Cubase because of its integration with my Yamaha N8 mixer, something that Sonar will not do.

Best regards,
Rob

[mercergate]

Once again you help me immensely. I'll try it now.

[mercergate]

You mean sequencer mode for playback right, not songplay. There is a lttle hitch where the style change happens, Still, it's progress for me. Thanks again.

[Rob Sherratt]

You mean sequencer mode for playback right, not songplay. There is a lttle hitch where the style change happens, Still, it's progress for me. Thanks again.

Hi mercergate,

Yes SEQUENCER mode for playback. My mistake. I use a modified version of the "Default" setup which is used in both STYLE PLAY mode when recording to Sonar, and is also used in SEQUENCER mode when playing back from Sonar.

Here are a few more tips while I think of them ....

During playback in SEQUENCER mode, set "Local Off" and set "MIDI Thru" to ON. Otherwise the Pa2x/Pa800 will not do what you expect.

It's useful to set the GLOBAL "show track activity" option so that in SEQUENCER mode, you can see in RED on each track the data coming in on each channel from the MIDI IN port.

I said I use a modified "Default" MIDI setup. Here are the details ....

It's very useful to set MIDI IN channel 1 to "Global" instead of "P1_Tr 1", and then resave the "Default" MIDI setup. I make sure I delete any bank/program change messages from track 1 channel 1 in Sonar. This is a rather neat trick because it gives you three multitimbral internal Pa2x/Pa800 channels for the price of one MIDI channel, and you can then manually select and modify sounds and performances and volumes for UPPER1, UPPER2 and UPPER3, and have them playback as a layered set of sounds, all controlled from the "upper" keyboard solo notes you recorded onto Track 1 in Sonar.

I don't bother to record UPPER2 and UPPER3 on Sonar since they are duplicates of UPPER1 and it wastes tracks and storage space. Instead I use the "freed up tracks" to record different solo parts when multitracking. So I have also modified my "Default" MIDI OUT preset so that channels 2 and 3 are not normally used.

When multitracking (at record time) in Sonar I do a first take with the Pa2x in STYLE PLAY mode to capture the style accompaniment while I play and record my playing on track 1 channel 1 and chords on track 4 channel 4.

Then I set the Pa2x to SEQUENCER mode, so I can play back from Sonar while I continue to play and record additional solo tracks on the PA2X keyboard (I use it without a split for the second and subsequent takes). I use many tracks to capture subsequent solo stuff from MIDI channel 1 in Sonar, and if I want to hear the previous channel 1 tracks while I record new ones, I change the channel number in Sonar to any of channel 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 which are not otherwise used.

On the Pa2x, I select the Sound for each of the MIDI In channels 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 manually initially. When I have the sounds how I want them, I add a bank and program change message at time 0 on the corresponding Sonar tracks, so that the MIDI file will play back how I want it in future.

Track 1 channel 1 is always used to play back my Multi-timbral UPPER1, UPPER2 and UPPER3 sounds, and it is not possible to program anything into Track 1 in Sonar to automate the selection of the correct Sounds, and bank and program change messages will only change the UPPER1 sound, and will not alter UPER2 and UPPER3. It is possible to automate it using a different track in Sonar and to place a Bank and program change event that will select the correct Performance on the Pa2x/Pa800. You could also use the same track to select different UPPER1, UPPER2 UPPER3 and LOWER Performances on the Pa2x/Pa800 at different times in the song. If so, at playback time that track/channel would have to be denoted as "Control" in the MIDI IN section of the "Default" MIDI Setup. After it has been denoted as "Control" for the Pa2x/Pa800, you can not use that channel for playing back notes.

Once you have prepared a MIDI file in Sonar with 16 tracks in it, you can play back that file in SONG Play mode on the Pa2x/Pa800 using Player 1. You can continue in Sonar to record an additional 16 tracks if you like. Then save the second set of 16 tracks as a new MIDI file. The second MIDI file can then be loaded onto Player 2 on the Pa2x/Pa800. Then you can play back all 32 tracks in sync at the same time on the Pa2x/Pa800.

Regards,
Rob

[karmathanever]

Moved from duplicate topic....

This has been busting my chops for months. I want to have 16 MIDI tracks on my PC, ch 1 through 16. Put Sonar on record mode, start style playing. Jam on top. Switch to a different style on the bridge or chorus. Sounds follow styles. Switch back to original style for verse. Hit stop on PA2x. Hit stop on Sonar. Rewind, Hit play on Sonar and here what I did played back with the same sounds. When the bridge comes up Kybrd does the style switch automatically. Why is this so impossible? I've messed with the "current MIDI Styles" a LOT! No luck. I get a cacophony back, usually with a lot of Bass drums. Doesn't the PA send out sysex or midi program change messages when you switch, if not, why not? It would be great to go into sonar, edit what I just played, and create a song. When I bought the kybrd this is what I envisioned doing with it. I've read the book many times, and searched the forum relentlessly. I can't believe this machine can't do something so obviously useful. Any body out there have clue?