Any hope for better organ patches? Thinking about a CX3

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:16 pm

I am getting to know a few of you M-50 forumites, and wish to ask your collective opinion.

I am not thrilled with the stock organ patches on the M-50. They are not horrible, just don't quite nail that hammond sound that I crave for my classic rock cover band. I have also downloaded the combis that someone created for the M-50, and they don't do it for me either. I am not a programmer, and I don't have time or patience to tweak the programs to my liking.

Then I got to thinking, what about having a two keyboard setup, with a dedicated organ with my m-50, so I started looking at organs. I don't really have $2K for the Nord or Hammond XK-3c, although those would probably be what I am ultimately looking for, and I can save my pennies until I do.

Then I saw a nearly-new Korg CX3 up on the 'bay (ends tomorrow and no-one has bid) that's more in my price range. Anyone of you have experience with the CX3, and recommend it as a dedicated organ?

I am also considering a hammond or roland sound module, but I am more interested in the two board setup for flexibility.

Any feedback/opinions are appreciated.

StudioMan · Post by **StudioMan** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:28 pm

Have you tried these?
http://korg.com/ClassDetail.aspx?ID=99

I'd kind of agree, but the organs on here (assuming this is the correct link I sent you), used as a base, some tinkering with the voices & effects, I came up with some REALLY good organs (IMO).

But live, I do think the M50 organs seem to cut thru the mix well, but when playing solo (as in just jamming by myself), the factory Organs sound ok, but not exactly as I would prefer.

I JUST came a crossed http://www.korgforums.com/?show=1

I haven't listened to a single one of these Combis, but you could check this out too.

But the IMPORTANT issue, the M50 can sound like whatever, but it take a little time.

I hope this helps.

Mike

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:54 pm

I found that the drawbar emulation combi works wonders for my Genesis songs. You should try that too.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:07 am

The CX-3 has the best Leslie of any clonewheel I've played. Overall, it's a great organ. I sold mine (I've had 2 of the new CX-3s) just recently for $1000 with ATA flight case. I owned it for all of a couple months.

I sold my first CX3 about 10 years ago shortly after I got it because I used it so little and the organ sounds I really needed/used could be gotten out of the Triton. I sold this last one because it had this really high/loud dissonant sound when playing augmented and diminished chords. The sound guy complained about it and I stopped using it. I'm not aware of any other CX3 (II) owner ever complaining about it before or after me so I doubt you'll have the issue. The noise/sound is high enough in the audio spectrum that generic headphones or laptop speakers don't pick it up.

Overall, I found the CX3 very very authentic and very well built. I'd take it over a hammond XK1 or XK3.

-Mc

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:04 am

StudioMan wrote:Have you tried these?
http://korg.com/ClassDetail.aspx?ID=99

I'd kind of agree, but the organs on here (assuming this is the correct link I sent you), used as a base, some tinkering with the voices & effects, I came up with some REALLY good organs (IMO).

But live, I do think the M50 organs seem to cut thru the mix well, but when playing solo (as in just jamming by myself), the factory Organs sound ok, but not exactly as I would prefer.

I JUST came a crossed http://www.korgforums.com/?show=1

I haven't listened to a single one of these Combis, but you could check this out too.

But the IMPORTANT issue, the M50 can sound like whatever, but it take a little time.

I hope this helps.

Mike

It helps, Mike, but just to set the record, the vintage pianos don't include any organs in that compilation. Some nice EPs and clavs, but not any organs. I found one Hammond-style patch on those in the download section, which is pretty good. Thanks again for pointing me in that direction.

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:06 am

McHale wrote:The CX-3 has the best Leslie of any clonewheel I've played. Overall, it's a great organ. I sold mine (I've had 2 of the new CX-3s) just recently for $1000 with ATA flight case. I owned it for all of a couple months.

I sold my first CX3 about 10 years ago shortly after I got it because I used it so little and the organ sounds I really needed/used could be gotten out of the Triton. I sold this last one because it had this really high/loud dissonant sound when playing augmented and diminished chords. The sound guy complained about it and I stopped using it. I'm not aware of any other CX3 (II) owner ever complaining about it before or after me so I doubt you'll have the issue. The noise/sound is high enough in the audio spectrum that generic headphones or laptop speakers don't pick it up.

Overall, I found the CX3 very very authentic and very well built. I'd take it over a hammond XK1 or XK3.

-Mc

Thanks McHale. Interesting that there is no CX3 forum on here. Anyone know why and/or when Korg stopped manufacturing them?

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:24 am

OFFICIALLY, they were discontinued just a few months ago. I'm not sure if it's because of the SV-1 (which is not a replacement for a clonewheel for obvious reasons) or because a new model would be coming out soon (they've been selling the CX-3 (II) for 10 years now with the only improvements being a new OS (which was a significant upgrade) and authentic waterfall keys (also a significant upgrade).

I hope that Korg doesn't get out of the clonewheel game. They have come a LONG way in the 10 years since they re-introduced the CX-3 (check out Rich's SV-1 demo video for Sweetwater to see all the authentic sounds they added). A modeled organ that does a B3 plus other important organs would be very welcomed.

It's really too bad that Korg is so secretive about new products as there are a lot of things us touring/gigging musicians could point out to improve future products.

Now, here's a point that I'd like to make about the organ sounds on the M50 and M3. I've been playing my M3 a lot more (since I've been too lazy to pull the M50 out of the case because of playing so many weekends during the summer) and I'm very VERY happy with the M3's organs. I can't put my finger on it but the M3 organs sound or feel different than the M50 organs. I haven't done any A/B comparisons on identical organ patches in a long long time and I know that the M3 has a LOT more organs than the M50 so it could just be more/better patches. I dunno but I plan to get to the bottom of it soon.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:14 pm

How many people would be interested in paying $20 for a pack of 32 organ programs for the M50?

-Kim.

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:14 pm

I might be interested, obviously got to hear them first.

I also heard that K-Sounds is working on an Organimation version for the m-50 (they have one for the m-3 that takes advantage of the sampler).

Thanks to those who have responded thus far.
I have decided to save my money, work more on understanding the innards of the M-50 to try to get the sounds I have in my head thru the board (e.g. Green Onions, Refugee, Whiter Shade of Pale, you dig?).

Wish Rich and the gang at Korg offered a master class on programming for active musicians who have never had programming before. And then they need to offer it in LA.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:50 pm

before doing anything crazy, download the M3 stock patches and go through those organs. There are a lot more organ sounds to choose from and many are quite good.

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:13 pm

started there. check.

kikedeolivos · Post by **kikedeolivos** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:36 pm

The CX3 (V2), to my liking, is the best Hammond clone out there, same layout as C3/B3. The Leslie sim is awesome and there's no equal like interact with all the controllers a Hammond Organ has. (Chorus, Perc, drawbars, Leslie switches, etc.)

But, if you are on a budget (And have a laptop), the BEST virtual Hammond is the VB3 (Soft) with an M-Audio Axiom 61 controller. Same key type (waterfall) as in a Hammond organ, lots of programmable knobs and buttons PLUS 9 sliders. (Drawbars). This combo (minus the laptop) will set you back around u$d 380.

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:56 pm

Yeah, another CX-3 fan here. I have one (V2) but don't take it out for shows. I keep a Roland VK-8M handy for that.

I listened to Organimation for the M3 yesterday, that guy knows what he's doing. If you don't want to carry a dedicated clone around, that's a great option. Even though it's sample based, I'm hoping for an M50 version.

holdsg · Post by **holdsg** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:16 pm

Yeah, I looked pretty hard at that VK-8M, someone was selling on the 'bay that ended today, but didn't pull the trigger. Looked like a good way to go too, but my pref. is to keep the amount of gear to a minimum (I say that, and then buy new stuff, oh well, call me a hypocrite). If and when they are ready and I can check out the Organimation progs for M-50, I may have all that I need on one board.

Thanks everyone for the feedback thus far. It has helped tremendously.

Ajbbklyn · Post by **Ajbbklyn** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:34 pm

This may or not be a satisfactory workaround, but would an outboard rotary pedal provide the type of improvement you're looking for?

If one of the perceived weaknesses of the organ patches is the Leslie sim, then this might be a viable alternative in conjunction with some tone tweaking on the M50.

I use a Boss RT-20 pedal which, along with the rotary simulation, also includes tube overdrive simulation. When used sparingly, it can beef up the sound without making it overly muddy.