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can anyone at korg tell me what happened to the multi oscilator synthesis system better know as moss.

why is kronos trying to sound like it's generating its own EP sounds.

Part of my dissapointment of the M3 was the fact that the moss wasn't an option, I mean Radias is ok, but to me its not moss, as far as i'm concerned you had a winner with moss, I don't know,maybe i'm wrong.

all I know if I buy a kronos, I won't be mad if moss becomes an option.

hint,hint

you had two oscilatators, and thirteen synth types to chose from

1 standard analog
2 comb filter
3 vpm
4 resonance
5 ring modulation
6 cross modulation
7 sync modulation
8 organ model
9 EP model (no samples)
10 brass model
11 reed model
12 plucked string model
13 bowed string model

not to shabby, does kronos have all this?

MOSS is dead... let it go.

Synthoid wrote:MOSS is dead... let it go.

I think an improved version of MOSS would help a lot, espescially the Brass and read models come to mind...

I personally think its sad that KORG didn't really add anything new to the Oasys models... But then who nows how much room there is for expansions..

hey synthoid, do you have moss in your triton classic?

p.s. i'll never let it go. i'm tired of sample based sounds.

jemkeys25 wrote:hey synthoid, do you have moss in your triton classic?

Yes I do!

I really like it as well... but we've been told by KORG reps that MOSS is long gone.

Physical Modelling is just one way to achieve realistic (and unrealistic) continuous parameterised expression in the generation of a sound. It doesn't disqualify other methods from being just as expressive or flexible.

Consider, that the KRONOS already has the following:
- STR1: Plucked/bowed/struck string modelling (can also do EP sounds)
- CX3: Tonewheel organ modelling
- MOD7: VPM/Ring Modulation/sample manipulation/waveshaping/filtering/other FM-like stuff
- MS20EX/PolySixEX: -Analog/ring modulation
- AL-1: Analog/ring/sync/(probably cross)/etc.

Brass sounds would probably benefit from modelling but the samples are also pretty good. MOD7 I can imagine might get some pretty good EPs and perhaps some quite expressive synth/brass sounds. FM and its ilk in general are typically very expressive although less straightforward to program. Considering STR1 and CX3 etc are included but there is no brass or reed modeling, Korg must have considered their other synth engines adequate enough in doing these sounds. Either that, or they didn't consider them a priority.

Furthermore, it is a shame, but MOSS-like physical modelling just isn't favourable commercially because the technique has to be licensed from another company.

The Z1 and its MOSS technology was the closest thing available to the original OASYS, which was based upon the idea of multiple synthesis technologies (just like the 'multi oscillator synthesis system'). So that fact that we have such a choice of engines in KRONOS and OASYS already makes it a successor to MOSS in general, and from a theoretical point of view I'd say that having MOSS in KRONOS would be like having a motorbike inside your car....

Again, brass and reed models might be nice, but I don't think a 'MOSS-EX engine' would be the answer, as most of that technology is already in KRONOS.

Hi jemkeys,

Here's a summary:

jemkeys25 wrote:1 standard analog
5 ring modulation
6 cross modulation
7 sync modulation

All of these are done simultaneously, and much better I might add, in the AL-1.

jemkeys25 wrote:2 comb filter
12 plucked string model

These are covered (and much more) by the STR-1.

jemkeys25 wrote:3 vpm

This is covered (and much more) by the MOD-7.

jemkeys25 wrote:8 organ model

This is covered (and much more) by the CX-3.

jemkeys25 wrote:9 EP model (no samples)

This is covered by the EP-1 - which, btw, uses synthesis - not just sample playback. You'll notice this when you play it, and when you work with some of the parameters. Samples can't do that...

The STR-1 also does some cool EPs with modelling, and the MOD-7 does a cool reed EP with waveshaping (as well as VPM/FM). Plenty of synth-based EPs to choose from!

jemkeys25 wrote:10 brass model
11 reed model
4 resonance
13 bowed string model

These last four techniques are not included in the KRONOS.

Finally, it's worth mentioning that the KRONOS (and OASYS) use vastly improved algorithms in comparison to MOSS - with much deeper programmability, much greater polyphony, and significantly better audio quality (very low aliasing VA oscillators, for instance, including sync).

Hey Jem before you get a little too hot under the collar why not just wait,see what Kronos is like and then make your decision. If you are keeping your Triton classic then I don't see how on earth it make's any difference,you'll have the best of both worlds woo hoo!!!!!

The EP model will be replaced with the EP-1 even though it uses samples but with the kind of control you desire.The Kronos will be missing the brass and reed models.Maybe Korg will produce a new EXi for just that purpose as an update but I wouldn't hold your breath.

MOSS is great but times move on and I'm sure once you try Kronos you will not be so bothered for the omission,the positives outweigh the negatives.

Crap....Dan replied before me.......... he is too dam clever that guy.

Time to crawl back in my hole....see ya.

X-Trade wrote: Furthermore, it is a shame, but MOSS-like physical modelling just isn't favourable commercially because the technique has to be licensed from another company.

This sounds like a misconception. Korg has a Sondius-XG license for the use of Stanford University's physical modelling patents (something which some other companies seem to use, in my personal, unofficial and non-legal opinion, without bothering to license). The MOSS synths, OASYS PCI, OASYS, and now KRONOS all are covered by this license.

- Dan

Bachus wrote:I think an improved version of MOSS would help a lot, espescially the Brass and read models come to mind...

I would also like every synth that Korg has ever made under one instrument (I'm serious...how cool would that be). However, I would not want them in lieu of a vastly upgraded piano or some of the performance features that the Kronos offers. Engineering effort is not unlimited, and I think they put the effort on the right things.

Bachus wrote:I personally think its sad that KORG didn't really add anything new to the Oasys models... But then who nows how much room there is for expansions..

Adding a great piano and EP do qualify as something new compared to Oasys models, and bring the Kronos mouth-wateringly close to a complete keyboard instrument. I can't wait.

As Dan has pointed out, it's the reed and brass that really missing (and I suppose the bowed model).

I'm not complaining that KRONOS doesn't have those, but I have to admit, I'd love it if it did. I LOVE being able to fly through the harmonics on a trumpet model on my Trinity.

Mark.

Some things MOSS had may be done in a better way with Kronos, but there's something charming about MOSS that simply can't be reproduced with something that's arguably better, y'know.

EvilDragon wrote:Some things MOSS had may be done in a better way with Kronos, but there's something charming about MOSS that simply can't be reproduced with something that's arguably better, y'know.

If this is your convoluted way of saying that you want to play with my Z1, stop harassing people, we'll work something out

danatkorg wrote:
1 standard analog
5 ring modulation
6 cross modulation
7 sync modulation

All of these are done simultaneously, and much better I might add, in the AL-1.

2 comb filter
12 plucked string model[/quote]
are covered (and much more) by the STR-1.

3 vpm
This is covered (and much more) by the MOD-7.

8 organ model
This is covered (and much more) by the CX-3.

9 EP model (no samples)
This is covered by the EP-1 - which, btw, uses synthesis - not just sample playback. You'll notice this when you play it, and when you work with some of the parameters. Samples can't do that...

The STR-1 also does some cool EPs with modelling, and the MOD-7 does a cool reed EP with waveshaping (as well as VPM/FM). Plenty of synth-based EPs to choose from!

11 reed model
4 resonance
13 bowed string model[/quote]
These last four techniques are not included in the KRONOS.

[/quote]

Hi Dan:

Is any of the current engines able to simulate/cover also the vocal model of the Oasys PCI card?