So I've come across this thread having just picked up a Kaossilator pro this week and a kaoss pad a few months back. Love them both to bits but so far haven't been able to keep time for toffee
tbh i thought it was something i was doing wrong, but eventually realised that the timing actually does wander, which is when I came across this thread.
The good news is that I've had *some* success with the timing thing. Not 100% but enough for the pads to be usable in the way I intended (i.e. loops, but in time
).
As stated by @fractous and also in the Kpro manual on page 10 where it's talking about the midi sync function:
"TIP: This function will not syncronize the sequence data with the KPRO's rhythm pattern programs. If you want to syncronize sequenced data with the KPRO's internal thyrthm patterns (i.e. if you want your other instruments/daw to be in time with your pad/s) you will have to insert a "Touch pad on" message into the beginning of each measure of your sequenced data, or touch the touch pad at the beginning of each of the KPRO's phrases to start the pattern"
Ok so i tested this by setting my sequencer going and just tapping the top left corner of the Kaossilator Pro at the start of each bar, and as if by magic it didn't wander.
So I got a trial copy of ableton, made a blank midi sequence/block (or put some notes in so you can tell it's playing, doesn't matter). Then down where it has the instrument properties and piano roll there's a (tiny) little "e" to show "envelopes" (CC controllers). Click to show that and whilst by default it shows velocity or whatever, there's a little dropdown which lets you access ALL the CC numbers.
So I picked CC#92 which is (according to kpro manual page 22) the cc message number to send and set a value of 128, and made sure the rest of the measure had value 0 (you can kinda draw the values, easier to do than explain).
Obviously you need to set that "pattern" active in ableton, but once I'd done that and set up midi on the computer to sync my hardware, it actually worked \o/
What's more I thought while I never saw any message about doing this with the Kaoss Pad KP3, I wonder if it works on that too.. and it also does!!
CAVEATS: (of which there are definitely some)
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1) The Kpro seems to try to "fix" the sync so if it's out by a bit it'll speed up/slow down to align to the nearest bar. So you still need *some* sense of timing i.e. the KPRO runs its loops all the time so I tend to have the kpro playing a loop and start my sequencer/computer as close to the correct beat/bar as possible so that it aligns properly (and give it a bar or two to get itself perfectly aligned). Don't expect to just hit play from stopped and it all magically starts in time like with normal midi equipment. You'll want things playing and check it's all aligned before dropping it into a mix..which is a bit of a faff but still less of a faff than not being able to use my pads at all (and no more of a faff than DJs have).
If you have a KP3 as well then you need to "align" (i.e. shift + "tap/range" to set downbeat) that manually with the KPRO/rest once it's synced (midi will already be in sync but the downbeat will prob be in the wrong place).
If you've done all that according to plan then they should both be (and stay) synced.
Please note: The KP3 can (and does) get knocked out of sync, though it just needs another "align" and you're good again. Since the kpro seems to "fix" the timing somehow (by rubberbanding to the nearest downbeat) it doesn't seem to go out like the kp3, and if it does (e.g. from processing lag) then it fixes it without me noticing since the adjustment is tiny.
The kp3 getting knocked out is frustrating when you're in a live mix but it's actually been tolerable. I only figured this stuff out this last weekend so there's probably more to learn stull but even so I had mixes of a couple of hours where the timing stayed in so i still can't be sure it's not *me* that's knocking it out somehow, or some particular operation on the device causes momentary lag. idk. I tend to try and keep a beat on sample bank A on the KP3 so I can check the alignment on headphones/cue before dropping the kp3 into the mix.
I haven't quite figured what knocks them out of sync - the KPRO seems to stay in once it's in but the KP3 does go out .. sometimes after a few mins or sometimes it's good for a couple of hours before it wanders. I wonder if perhaps when it has to stop and think about something it maybe loses a bit of timing then? idk. Still working on this.
2) You may also find that samples/loops you've recorded previously on KPRO/KP3 don't align properly with your midi loops. This is because till now the KPRO/KP3 were basically in their own little world as far as timing goes and even a fraction of a second difference between the pads and the sequencer makes things sound off. Loops you record whilst using the above timing setup should be perfectly in time but prior ones might need a bit of work.
On the Kpro you're out of luck since there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust the position of the samples other than exporting them via librarian (the kpro software) and adjusting the timing of the wav files on the computer and then re-exporting them to the Kpro (tedious).
On the KP3 however you can just hit shift+bank a/b/c/d and you can adjust the timing offset of pre-existing loops by +/-1 bar (or beat?). either way, that worked really well to adjust loops to get them all perfectly in time with my midi sequencer. Normally they just need a tiny nudge of 0.1 or 0.2 either direction. It would have been nice to have an extra digit of resolution since normally they ended up slightly between to values but hey, can't have everything.
3) Even when in sync as per above, on the KP3 rhythm patterns won't stay in time if you just leave them playing. And by that I mean exactly: if you get the pads synced as above but then tap (and hold) a beat it'll start off in time but it will still wander after a few measures. However if you (re)sample the beat to a bank and then play the sample back *it will stay in time* - presumably because the note_on thing at the top of each measure keeps re-aligning it. I've not yet tested this on the kpro but am expecting similar outcome
In conclusion - yes this is hella annoying that they don't actually stay in time out of the box, *especially* as these are such unique and interesting instruments. I absolutely LOVE the expressiveness and directness of the pads andwith just my Kpro and KP3 I can make some amazing sounds which tickle my soul in all the right places, so I **really** wanted to figure something out here, whcih also means I'll put up with quite a lot of BS in order to get it to work. Which is good, because this isn't really a reasonable outcome for a digital device from an industry behemouth like Korg.
However it is what it is, and it doesn't look like Korg is going to update the software, so it's either sell the pads or Make It Work Somehow. Tho I wonder if the electribe shaman could be convinced to have a look?
Other cool related stuff to check out:
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Retrokits RK002 smart midi cable - which can be set up to work like a midi "filter". so you put it upstream of your Kpro and it will convert note_on messages from your keyboard or whatever to the CC# values needed to "play" the kpro (notes) over midi. So you get access to all the Kpro goodness but with note accuracy which you can play from a keyboard or other midi device (also means you can sequence note-accurate Kpro playback from a computer). May also work with KP3 since they handle pad messages the same sorta way.
I've not yet got one of these but it's on my shopping list asap. have a search and you'll see what I mean
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I haven't yet tested adding a note_on message more often - e.g. every bar instead of every 4 bars. Maybe it would improve the accuracy or completely mess it up - I'll update this once i've tested.