Korg AI2 Synths

michaelg · Post by **michaelg** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:12 am

Hi there

Am thinking of buying an AI2 synth and am finding it hard to differentiate between the different models. Hope someone on here can help.

If I understand it correctly so far, the 03R/W is a stripped down version of this line and is probably not worth picking up now. The X5DR on the other hand (again if I understand correctly) contains the exact same patches (programs and combi's) as included on the 05R/W, plus a new bank of patches. Included in the X5DR are a "best of" collection of M1, T series , Wavestation and 01/W series patches. Since I've found it impossible to find a definitive list of patches for either the X5DR, M1, T or 01/W (they don't appear to have been included in the manuals, and the page that should list the X5DR patches is annoyingly missing from the X5DR manual on the Korg website), I can't compare patches between the models to see which ones from the earlier synths are included on the X5DR. Is very frustrating! It was a breeze to compare patches between the Triton Classic and Triton Le as there are full voice lists on the Korg website, but alas this is not the case for the AI2 synths.

Then there's the N1R and NS5R! Do these ones contain all the patches from the X5DR or are there quite a lot of ones missing? Would be great if the NS5R contains all the X5DR patches, like the Roland JV 2080 has all the 1080 patches, as then I'll just go for that. But not sure if I'd need an X5DR as well as an NS5R to get all the patches. I've heard that the NS5R is backwards-compatible with the X5DR, but if not all those X5DR patches are contained, is there anywhere you can download them from?

Sorry about this, but I just can't find any lists anywhere of patches contained within these modules. Roland puts all the patches included in their manuals, but unfortunately Korg doesn't seem to do the same (at least not back in the 90's). Really want to know if the NS5R covers all the X5DR's ground or whether it's worth picking them both up. If there's anything here I've said that I'm wrong about, please correct me

Also if there's another AI2 module that I should consider, please suggest it to me

Cheers,
Mike

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:49 am

Hey there -

What you're looking for is the owners manuals, specifically the "Reference Guide" which is the larger of the two. In there you will find several "Voice Name Lists" which lists every program, combination, multisound, and drum sample contained within each synth. Korg has never skimped on the documentation. In most cases, you can find these manuals on Korg UK's site http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/page.cfm?pageid=357# . otherwise you can usually just search it out on the internet.

Here's the breakdown with the different AI Synths.

The M1 and T-series are somewhat compatible with each other... the T's would be able to produce anything that the M1 could. the M1 comes to 4MB of sample ROM, and the T's are 8MB.

The 01/W-series has a few multisounds from the M and T-series, but most of it's sample ROM is fresh, and isn't the same as the M & T-series. The 03R/W has about 90% of the 01/W's sample ROM, plus some new stuff to make it GM-compatible... i wouldn't say it's not worth having, it still has the better multisample quality that the 01/W has, but no waveshaping ability. Total ROM size here is 6MB (255 multisamples).

The X2, X3, and X5 and 05R/W have sample ROM that sounds almost identical to the 01/W's, but it's compressed (doesn't sound as nice)... and then they added more to everything so they would be GM-compatible. The piano sound is even more dull than the 01/W's, some of the brass and woodwind sounds are replaced with duller, less clear samples, and it's missing a lot of stuff the 01/W had. Total ROM size here is 6MB (340 multisamples). The X2 has an additional piano sound that's 2MB by itself (pretty nice).

The X5DR and X5D take the exact same sample ROM from the X2, X3, and X5 (6MB), and adds 2 more MB of multisamples. These include things like the piano and organ sound from the M1, a sax sound from the T's, a hard flute sound from the 01/W, lots of odds-and-ends type sounds. Total ROM size is 8MB (430 multisamples).

The N264 and N364 Workstations has the exact same sample ROM as the X5D and X5DR - 8MB. They contain all of the programs and combinations from the X3, plus the X5DR's program and combination bank, plus a brand new bank.

The N5 is basically the X5D, with 4MB more sample ROM. Same sample ROM, with 4 more added in totalling to 12MB. The N1 has the same sample set, but with the piano sound taken from the Trinity (2MB more). they have all the programs and combinations from ... pretty much everything since the X3. not really sure WHERE the NS5R and NX5R fall into that mix, but i believe they're based on the N5.

The N5EX has even more multisounds than the N5, but i think it still lacks in a decent piano sound. I want to say it has 14MB total here, but i'm not so sure about that.

Basically... the N1 does have the most, there's an arranger workstation by Korg called the i30 that actually is a culmination of everything since the X3, with 18MB total sample ROM... it looks like a black Trinity, even has that nice piano sound from the Trinity, but everything else is AI2. it has no combinations at all though... since it's technically an arranger and not really a keyboard workstation.

If you want lots and lots of multisounds, look for the N-series synthesizers. The 01/W and T-series definitely have the BETTER QUALITY sounds, they just don't have very many, and not much in the way of polyphony. if you're looking for a module, check out the 01R/W. from the X3 on, pretty much everything is backwards-compatible. Also, that X5DR bank, is in everything - it's 100 programs and 100 combinations, and is usually a bank in all of the synths from 1995 on. I hope i was able to clear some things up.

By the way - if one of these synths DOESN'T have the X5DR bank, it's usually contained in ROM and you can usually load it, you have to switch it out for another bank of programs/combis.

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:57 am

i thought the n364 was suposto be the best one?
hmm....

fallingman · Post by **fallingman** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:15 pm

IMHO the N1 & N5EX are rather good - I had the N1 for ages till I got a Triton Extreme 88 then the OASYS.

The N1 has a very good piano sample - the N5EX is basically an expanded N5 with that extra sample set the N1 has.

Hope that helps...

michaelg · Post by **michaelg** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:00 pm

An absolutely cracking rundown Gargamel! I couldn't have ever hoped for a more complete and thorough answer! That's certainly cleared up a lot of my queries, so thanks a lot

Will now be on the hunt for these reference guides

So basically, the 01/W is the one to go for if you're after sound quality, whereas the later models are the ones if you want lots of preset sounds. Is looking like there's justification for buying both an 01/W and an X5DR or N-series rack

Mike

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:00 am

well... if you buy the 01/Wpro or proX, it gives you an extra 2MB with the high quality piano sample (8MB total). you can also get this on a PCM card that goes into the back of the 01/W or 01R/W (if you can find it). I think it's the same as what's on the T1, T2, and T3EX. The stock piano sound is a LITTLE higher quality than what you'd find in the later AI2 synths, but it's still not terribly realistic. But ya, an 01/Wfd + an N1R would be heaven on earth. The 01/W had this waveshaping component in most of its sounds which adds some brightness and depth in everything... to me nothing sounds as good since they dropped it with everything that came out afterwards.

Here's the page with some of the demo's that Stephen Kay did... you can see what they all sound like and judge for yourself.

http://www.karma-lab.com/mg/ag-pd.html

robbinhood wrote:i thought the n364 was suposto be the best one?
hmm....

The N364 has some great advantages - it has the sample ROM from the X5D which has a REALLY NICE selection of multisounds. It also has 64 voices of polyphony, which up until the Triton came out, was the only workstation available with that much polyphony. I had one for many years, and traded it in for an 01/Wfd because it had slightly better sound quality and a better keybed. The 01/W-series was meant for the pros when it came out, the N-series was more of a budget-workstation (like the M50 is now to the M3). You were also limited by the samples inside the N364, you couldn't plug a card in the back and get new sample data like you could with the others... like if you wanted that better piano sound... if you had an 01/W you could just buy the card set, with the N364 you were stuck playing Dr. Frankenstein with the stock piano sample and the M1 piano sound.

korgar · Post by **korgar** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:55 pm

A little correction of tech specs:

The N5EX has 18MB of sample ROM and it`s the same as N1, without weightened keyboard and extra outputs. I think it has some extra drum sets more than N1.

The N364 is known as "little trinity". To me, it`s one of the nicest looking low-budget synths and at that time it had a great sound set. It`s equipped with 8MB of sample Rom.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:11 pm

Gargamel314 wrote:also get this on a PCM card that goes into the back of the 01/W or 01R/W (if you can find it). I think it's the same as what's on the T1, T2, and T3EX.

NO.

Totally incompatible format.

You may get a "best of m1 & t3" pcm+patch card for the 01/w though, but that's it.

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:12 pm

Was talking about the piano sound there - ya know the big one that's in the 01/W pro and proX? it's on a card too.

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:49 am

does korg i30 has all the sounds (programs) from 01/w ?

Daniel_C · Post by **Daniel_C** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:52 am

The older ones M1, T series and 01/W have the best and more potent sound , I think the T has the M1 samples but the ones in the 01/W are different, some better some not.

The N264-N364 ( N264 was my first pro synth and I loved it ) are definetly the best of the X family, it has all the same multisamples , has a floppy disk drive , a good sequencer, Real-time Pattern Play and Record (RPPR) function , it´s build tough, and sounds better than the rest, except maybe for the X3.X2 that are older, plus there are thousands of compatible sounds available, but it won´t sound like an M1, the samples are different and more compressed. I used the X5D and the N364 at the same time and the X5 sounds thiner and less potent, it´s very ligth and flimsy, and has no way to enter new sounds, only manually or with a propietary cable and software editor I think.

I once tried an N5 and it sounded really good , maybe better than the N364 and it includes some Trinity samples, but it´s not compatible with any of the other AI keyboards , so you will have less variety of presets available.

If I were you I´d go for the N264 ( for the M , T and X greatest hits ) and an N5EX ( newer different sounds ) to get the most variety of sounds, and if you have the oportunity of a cheap T2 or a 01/W I´d defintely go for it!

medwaystudios · Post by **medwaystudios** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:06 pm

I know this is a very old thread but came across it just recently when I had the same question about the differences in soundset between the 05RW (which I just purchased) and the X5DR.

After some more looking around I found the manual for the X5/X5D which does show the extra waveforms included at the very end.

Maybe it's useful for someone since this page comes up highly in Google:

https://www.mediafire.com/?ub77y4823jll8a4

Mellontikos · Post by **Mellontikos** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:54 pm

I know all these synths pretty well.

M1 and T-Series virtually identical, but the T-Series has twice as many samples (a couple of different Piano and EP sounds, some sound FX, etc etc).
So T-Series is an M1 on steroids basically.

0-Series, 01/W and 01R/W identical except for the keys. 03R/W is missing some multisamples and the waveshaping. It is about 90% close to its big brother, but stripped down.

01/Wpro is identical to 01/W except for the extra keys and 1 extra multisample (a second acoustic piano). Compared to today's A. Pianos, neither sounds terribly realistic. I wouldn't even say they are better than each other, just different.

05R/W was badly named. It is an X5 without the keys, which is really an X3 without the floppy and sequencer (lol)

X3 (and therefore X5 and 05R/W) had a couple of the 01/W and T-Series samples, but mostly it was a new set of sounds. Sadly, the Piano sounds were a terrible weakness with this line, all of them sounded terrible.

X5D and X5DR added more samples to the X5 and 05R/W. Mostly special FX, and they brought back the M1 Piano for the first time since the M/T-Series.

The N-Series was a major upgrade, taking all the X5D samples, and doubling them with brand new stuff. It is still missing some key samples from older series though.

So really, to have the complete collection of Korg sounds from pre-Trinity era, you need : N1 or N1R, 01/W and a T-Series synth, and you're set.

medwaystudios · Post by **medwaystudios** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:21 am

Cheers for the extra info. I just came back here to check out if there was anything mentioned about the N1R.

I used to have a NS5R and considered getting one to complement the 05R/W but it looks like the N1R might be even better.

Musicwithharry · Post by **Musicwithharry** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:05 pm

I would certainly give each on e a listen and see which one really hits you in the way you need.

I agree with the other posts here as each one has strengths and weaknesses. I never really relied on Korg back in those days for piano, as I used Ensoniq and thought their piano sounds were much better and the keyboards were much more user-friendly, but I always had a Korg somewhere in my arsenal.

In the late 90's, I used an Alesis QS6 and Korg X5 for the smaller gigs and they both worked well. I have always found Korg to be the best for pads and special sounds like that. I never used the piano on the X5 because it was garbage.

My live rig now is listed below and I love the M50. I got it for $300 and traded a Kurzweil K200 for it basically. It really works well for what I need and triggers the other live gear very well. I especially love the guitar sounds on it.

I'd still love to have an OASYS but even now they are $3000 USD to get one and for that price, the Kronos is very attractive.

I also have the 05r/w (two of them actually) as well as an X5DR and use the X5Dr for pads and layers with the rest of the gear. The second 05R/W I got I use for lead sounds (along with the custom guitar patch from the M50). There are samples at www.reverbnation.com/harryebbesoniii of the Korgs in action (as well as the rest of the gear).

Take a listen to each one that you are interested in and that will help quite a bit. The advantages to the X5DR is the additional polyphony (64) which may be a factor for you since the 05R/W is only 32.

Grace,
Harry