Kronos vs M3

apex · Post by **apex** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:48 pm

here's the million dollar question... (and i mean facts, not "it depends on the user")

what justifies a Kronos purchase if you already own an m3?

will repost in a sec

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:00 pm

apex wrote: here's the million dollar question... (and i mean facts, not "it depends on the user")

what justifies a Kronos purchase if you already own an m3?

all the extra synth engines.

better ROM

way more IFX channels

polyphony

not having an all-important USB drive to forget, lose, or break the day of a gig

weight

integrated manual

Audio tracks

apex · Post by **apex** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:04 pm

and to be a little more specific with my situation...

When i purchased my m3 last summer, I had all intentions of it being my LAST WORKSTATION purchase.

but now the Kronos announcement has me considering making the KRONOS my last (I mean it would be different if the Kronos came out 2 years or so after I got the m3, but 6 months or so... it's just too close!!!!)

I am a church musician. I don't do many covers (where I need my sounds to sound exactly like the cd), I'm getting into programming, etc... I've not even started taking my boards too church with me yet. I play hammond b-3 every sunday. I'd like to take them to church, but just not ready yet. (them or me) LOL.

I feel that the Kronos will sound better then the m3, but the m3 is SUPER GREAT for what I need it to be and do.

This may sound superficial, but this is one of my main arguments for ME wanting to upgrade...

I had the Korg Triton (pro x) for 10 years and it was a pain to keep clean. Once it was stained... it was stained. I'm only going to be able to keep that m3 crispy white for so long... and who knows what it is going to look like in 10 years. LOL with the black Kronos, you don't have to worry about that AT ALL. (is that superficial? LOL) --- makes sense though right?

I have not even tapped into 20% of what the m3 can do (give or take a little) I've used the sequencer... messed around with the synth engine and sampler... a few keys of a custom drum kit, created like 3 combis, no programs have a made... very little with Karma. I own the memory module and Radias board.

I'm trying to make an educated decision about upgrading. I could get about $1850 in all for my m3 right now so I'd be half way to the price of the Kronos 88.... I have my ways of creating income to spend on my gear so the money part is not THAT big of an obstacle, but it will be stressful and take careful time and planning to make sure it happens.

What to do... what to do?!?!?!?!?!?!

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:24 pm

If M3 is all you need, and the only reason you want to buy a Kronos, is your G.A.S, I would wait. Kronos won't last forever either and it might be a Kronos 2 in the future instead or maby somthing even better from other companies. It would be the best advice to wait I think.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:32 pm

IMHO, 1) If you like your M3 (sound, response, look, weight), 2) if it serves your needs in church well, and 3) if you haven't fully explored it yet then I think it doesn't make sense to spend more money.

From another perspective: 1) If you still need a better sonic quality and more versatile keyboard and 2) you have the money then use the best instrument you can to praise God.

I guess you already know this great guy:
http://youtu.be/wGjI9BCxUPc

thekeymaster · Post by **thekeymaster** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:41 pm

I suppose you have to ask yourself do I need the Kronos to take advantage of all the extra's or do I need it just cause its a darker colour?

You seem quite happy with the M3. I suggest you may be better off sticking with what you have.

Thing is,there is always that little devil on your shoulder tempting you towards something new and better.

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:48 pm

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:31 pm

apex wrote: When i purchased my m3 last summer, I had all intentions of it being my LAST WORKSTATION purchase.

Heh. Heh.

I think a lot of us believe that to be true, until the next best thing is released . . . (Our spouses are much more clever - they don't believe us when we say, "this WILL be the last . . . . . . ")

apex · Post by **apex** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:57 pm

Lougheed wrote:
apex wrote: When i purchased my m3 last summer, I had all intentions of it being my LAST WORKSTATION purchase.
Heh. Heh.

I think a lot of us believe that to be true, until the next best thing is released . . . (Our spouses are much more clever - they don't believe us when we say, "this WILL be the last . . . . . . ")

No I really meant it. The Triton Classic lasted me for 10 years... with no problem at all. Never thought about another keyboard. The ONLY reason, this is an issue is because I JUST got the m3 in June of 2010.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:31 pm

Sina172 wrote:my girlfriend

now that's something I REALLY can't believe.

I may accept that you've got 4 Oasys, and that you're gonna buy 12 Kronos,

and the 25000 square meters.

But you getting a real sexual life?

Nahhhh....

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:34 pm

ozy wrote:
Sina172 wrote:my girlfriend
now that's something I REALLY can't believe.

+1

drama1 · Post by **drama1** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:53 pm

Okay, I'll chime in here. I am absolutely gassing for the Kronos, but setting aside the GAS syndrome, if I just think of what I am using the synth for, exclusively live playing, the M3 is really more than enough for me. The pro's of the M3-73. Lightweight, especially compared to the Kronos 73. Radias exp board. Do I really need three analog exi's on Kronos? Anything I've heard from the polysix and ms-20 and even AL-1 I'm sure I could get pretty close with radias. I REALLY like the karma scene buttons being only one inch away from my left hand for smooth combi/program changes. 73 key semi-weighted keys, especially if you're playing three sometimes four sets a night. Slim package, does not take up a lot of realestate stagewise. BUT Kronos has those wonderful pianos and CX3. I was thinking of purchasing Organimation from K-sounds for the M3, but I can't find any real rock organ demos to see if it would fit my need. I'll just wait for the release of Kronos and hopefully do a side-by-side sound comparison to see if the purchase is worth is. Just my .2$.

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:27 pm

Apex wrote:

and to be a little more specific with my situation...

I am a church musician. I don't do many covers (where I need my sounds to sound exactly like the cd), I'm getting into programming, etc... I've not even started taking my boards too church with me yet. I play hammond b-3 every sunday. I'd like to take them to church, but just not ready yet. (them or me) LOL.

I feel that the Kronos will sound better then the m3, but the m3 is SUPER GREAT for what I need it to be and do.

I have not even tapped into 20% of what the m3 can do (give or take a little) I've used the sequencer... messed around with the synth engine and sampler... a few keys of a custom drum kit, created like 3 combis, no programs have a made... very little with Karma. I own the memory module and Radias board.
_________________
Current Gear:SYNTHS:
M3-88 (Radias,EXB-M256),Roland Fantom G7 (ARX-01 Drum Card,1 GB Ram),Yamaha Motif Rack XS,Roland XV-5080-Xpanded SRX SRJV80
COMPUTER STUFF:
Apple Mac Book Pro (Late 2009 Model,8GB Ram, 2.8 Ghz), Logic Pro 9.1.3, Abelton Live 8.1, Reason 5,Recycle,Audacity,Kore 2,Mainstage 2, Philharmonik,NI K6,ReFX Nexus,Alchemy, Rapture,Sample Tank 2.5,Sonic Synth 2,Korg Legacy Collection

Apex,
What to do? I'll make this easy for you: use what you've got and upgrade like someone else said when Kronos II comes out.

I mean, come on- you've got the sounds from all the top three right now: G7, XS rack, M3, and any ONE of those are a full time job, so to speak, to get up to speed with their capabilities (esp. as it sounds like you're still learning some of the basics), and you've got all three, as well as a full on computer setup for sounds.

I do think this is a case of GAS, and in my worried/judgemental opinion, its not exactly worshipful to be overly consumerist about your ways of serving the lord (sounds like that's your main musical motivation), esp. as you're already in the enviable position of having most of the best the workstation world has to offer.

I didn't hear you say you felt you were missing any sounds, or that the sound quality was lacking- just that you suspected the Kronos would have better sounds.

For myself, as a M3 user as well, I KNOW the quality of sound on the M3 is lacking, for my purposes, and I LUST AND LONG AFTER the upgrade that REAL SYNTH ENGINES (and not just glorified rompler playback) will give me.

But given that you're mostly a church guy, and haven't dared?/felt ready to bring your keyboards to church yet, and that you've got plenty of technology to figure out with the G7, XS rack and soft synths (too much time with technology leads to less time playing music);

Plan A:
Given all that, I'd strongly suggest you throw your net wider, and consider the Nord Stage (the EX or the Stage II). For someone who wants a portable board that does an OUTSTANDING JOB on organs and piano, and is dead simple and SATISFYING as all get out to play, the Stage stands alone.

The red keyboard does not stain, it's 40 pounds instead of 50, it's 6 or 8" shorter than the Kronos 88, and is just pure, playing (not programming) joy. And, the organ is set on the Stage to trigger with a shallower throw than the pianos, making it possible to play organ more easily on a weighted action board.

And the beauty for someone who's still learning keyboards in general, is that the Stage is a real education- it has only been since I've had the Stage that I have a clear idea of how a real organ, a real piano, and a real Wurli can feel /sound like on a digital keyboard; previously, with my M3 and my Motif XS, I didn't know how to evaluate the sounds, what to look for, and I've never had the same playing, finger-to-sound connection with either of them that I do with the Stage . Hard to make buying decisions when you don't have the experience to know exactly what you're looking for.

Plan B:
I would suggest keeping your present setup and learning the M3, make it your main board that you learn inside and out. The Kronos is probably 90% similar to the M3, so its a good board to learn the sequencer, fx, etc. And it'd be worth learning- historically the Korg workstations have operated very similarly from one generation to the next. And personally, I'm throwing my hat in with Korg (of the big 4) as having the most long term potential for creating workstations that I can relate to / love.

And if there are sounds you're not satisfied with, you can buy Irish Acts or other 3d party samples, which will greatly improve the stock sounds.

Plan C:
If you decide the Kronos is too good to resist (get thee behind me!), I would suggest selling the M3 and the XS rack (not the G7, 'cause it'd be good to have a semi-weighted board as well). How much technology do yo want to learn/deal with? For my money/time, I'm going with Korg as being my main workstation ax- it's a lot to learn any one of the workstations, let alone 3 of them.

Just remember- the workstations available today are beyond amazing in many ways, but you pay a price for all that fancy technology- the days, weeks, months, years spent understanding it and making it "yours", which is why the Stage is a good counterbalance to all that compelling, but often distracting potential capability.

Randy

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:37 pm

Akos: just listened to your organ link- wowzie!

I inherited a Roland AT-70 from my folks, a double manual organ, apparently Rolands first for the home organ market, made in the early 90's. It's MAP was around $18,000!!!

Anyway, it's been interesting/challenging to get into it (not being an organ player and not having been around much of that); but it is liberating/empowering/absorbing/etc. to have 2 manuals, footpedals, 12" onboard speaker (big sound), simple interface, etc. to relate to. In many ways it like the ultimate user interface / controller!

I guess I've got to listen to more slammin' organ players to wrap my head around whats possible- if you have more links to players that hold forth, bring it on! I have to admit that most organ playing doesn't do much for me, but the Doors, some inspired gospel, some jazz and some rock organ is just killer!

apex · Post by **apex** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:50 pm

Randelph wrote:
And if there are sounds you're not satisfied with, you can buy Irish Acts or other 3d party samples, which will greatly improve the stock sounds.

Randy

One of the problems with the m3 is the VERY VERY low sample space allotted after you load the EXB sounds... how much room for 3rd party do I really have...

By the way, your comments were great. Thanks for taking the time to think about my setup and make a good educated suggestion.