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Hi everyone!

I purchased a Motif XS8 because I was really sold on the piano and some of the accoustic sounds plus the amount of arpeggios, however its sequencer SUCKED and the learning curve was too steep. I found myself spending more time programing it than composing with similar results with its Cubase AI companion. At the time the Fantom G looked like a good choice. I specially liked its sequencer simplicity, and I used it to record SMF's and audio thru its RCA either the Motif or my VG-99. I was so excited to see the kronos. I am a pianist at heart and its sound quality appear to be quite good plus all the goodies will keep me busy for a while. I have tried to find out if its sequencer would be somehow similar and graphic to the G6 I have (you can see the tracks, copy and paste etc). I really hate to carry 2 keyboards with me or a keyboad and a computer which im tryng to avoid. Anyone has any idea?

The Kronos Sequencer, as shipped, is identical to the OASYS one. This gives you 16 MIDI tracks and 16 Audio tracks (HD Recording at 24 bit). It is very well specified in terms of MIDI resolution, Audio quality; and has a fair complement of editing facilities. You can record multitrack MIDI, and indeed multitrack Audio

'Set up' facilities are also very capable - capacity to sync to a DAW via MIDI, EQ on all 32 channels, mix automation (MIDI 7-bit resolution only) significant true-professional effects with hundreds of effects presets including multiband compression and other excellent mastering effects; and overb among the very best reverbs you're likely to come across. All latency free and without having to question resource allocation; and integrated fabulously with the rest of the instrument.

Mixing down within the OASYS / Kronos yields recording of truly astounding quality. I don't say that likely. Noise is nonexistent. From mixing capabilities to the absolute and completely pristine audio paths from recording to master, OASYS/Kronos feels like a totally different proposition to any other workstation recording wise. I recently completed an entire commercial job on only the OASYS (as an experiment to see if it could be done) and though I pushed the OASYS to the absolute limit (it hung during bouncing, about 10 minutes before the 'absolute deadline' for delivery of the WAV master (I nearly had a heart attack) and had to learn a lot about how to organise numerous takes and versions on HD - for example if you create subdirectories too 'deep' the OASYS can't cope and doesn't save the audio tracks but doesn't tell you it's not saving them!), - but, once dealing with all that - it delivered a complex job admirably.

So Kronos will feel like a quite professional and complete sequencer. However, while it offers very goog graphical pages for setup, EQ, midi routing, effects routings and manipulation and even MIDI and Audio track viewing, there is no graphical editing of MIDI or Audio data per-say. So you do not get DAW type editing of Audio and MIDI regions. So it's not a graphically editable environment. But it does provide the full compliment of standard editing features so you don't really loose out on standard editing capabilities.

Given that the M3 has superior graphical features added to its sequencer, there might be cause for optimism that those added features will be added to the Kronos at a future date. If the case, it really will be a quite complete alternative to a DAW environment. But in terms of delivering superlative recordings - you have absolutely nothing to fear - Korg have dug _very_ deep in delivering a highly sophisticated recording, mixing, effects and mastering environment to readily match / compete with dedicated hardware, software and plugins.

Kevin.

Kevin,

Any chance you could post excerpts from your "All-on-OASYS" job online? I'd be very interested in hearing what you've been able to wring out of the sequencer.

BB

I find it hard to understand how Korg can bring out the 'next big thing' workstation to replace the M3 and it's excellent hardware sequencer with a sequencer where it's midi side has gone back to the 1990s! From what I gather, even cue lists aren't included???? Can someone please confirm or deny this?

If Korg were able to include a piano roll editor and the like in the V2 M3 sequencer, then why oh why do they have to omit these features in the new and vastly superior Kronos????

The 16 track HDR is welcome but one has to wonder why Korg hasn't included tempo based time stretching so the audio can be adjusted to easily fit with the song tempo.

One can only hope that these features (amongst others) will be included in a subsequent update (like Kronos V2 perhaps?).

I know that it's pointless to criticise an instrument that one hasn't played yet but reducing sequencer features in a 'do it all' workstation simply doesn't make sense to me? Of course I could be wrong in my opinion????

Slovenec wrote:
One can only hope that these features (amongst others) will be included in a subsequent update (like Kronos V2 perhaps?).

I know, right? guess that's all we can do. The M3's PRV is no joke - it works REALLY WELL. I'm sure they have their reasons, and who knows, maybe it will be a future patch addon. Korg always seems to throw one huge patch at people down the road that makes the instrument even better. Maybe they're saving it for when Yamaha or Roland release their "game changer." What's the MIDI resolution on the Kronos anyway? is it back to 192 ppq, or did they keep it at 480? Anywho, thank goodness for software sequencing.

Slovenec wrote:I find it hard to understand how Korg can bring out the 'next big thing' workstation to replace the M3 and it's excellent hardware sequencer with a sequencer where it's midi side has gone back to the 1990s! From what I gather, even cue lists aren't included???? Can someone please confirm or deny this?

Its a matter of where to spend development money and how much money to spend. The Kronos appears to use the OASYS software as its base, which is different from the M3 software base. Therefore, some of the M3's sequencing functionality (which was not in the OASYS) would have to be added to the Kronos.

Korg may assume that many users will use external sequencing software -- I know I will.

Thanks Kevin and everyone else for the reply. Kevin, it reads great on paper. I did play a little bit with the M3 and Oasys virtual GUI and... Oh my god, its is just plain ridiculus. I mean, I know that there must be a lot of geniuses out there and here that could lay the tracks on their first take, but even after 25 years of playing, I still need to edit the songs once in a while. Anyway probably in this category, it will go like Fantom G, Motif XF, and at the bottom hehehe Kronos... Hey wait, isn't this supposed to be a top of the line brand new keyboard?

P.S. It sounds great in paper, It looks great on youtube :p I hope Korg gets it soon tata

The Kronos' sequencer midi resolution will be 480ppqn.

...

Slovenec wrote:I find it hard to understand how Korg can bring out the 'next big thing' workstation to replace the M3 and it's excellent hardware sequencer with a sequencer where it's midi side has gone back to the 1990s! From what I gather, even cue lists aren't included???? Can someone please confirm or deny this?

If Korg were able to include a piano roll editor and the like in the V2 M3 sequencer, then why oh why do they have to omit these features in the new and vastly superior Kronos????

The 16 track HDR is welcome but one has to wonder why Korg hasn't included tempo based time stretching so the audio can be adjusted to easily fit with the song tempo.

One can only hope that these features (amongst others) will be included in a subsequent update (like Kronos V2 perhaps?).

I know that it's pointless to criticise an instrument that one hasn't played yet but reducing sequencer features in a 'do it all' workstation simply doesn't make sense to me? Of course I could be wrong in my opinion????

I think you are being too harsh. It is a very formidable recording environment. All to the features I mentioned above are simply not available on any other workstation today - let alone a workstation form the 90's. 16 track, 24bit HD recording, 32 channels of EQ, exquisite effects (up to 14) - all at hardware latencies. I understand your frustration on lack of GUI editing - but - I recommend strongly that you try it before knocking it - you'd be hard pushed to get anything like this performance on a dedicated DAW except on very well spec'd computers.


People were VERY critical of the OASYS sequencer for the same reasons, but despite the shortcomings in the graphic editing department, both OASYS and Kronos are, as indicated, very capable. At least - if you want a complete environment for composing, mockups, capturing ideas - at a VERY creative level - then this is absolutely ideal.

And - this is for starters - remember - this is where OASYS left off, and it is very plausible that Korg will bring those M3 sequencers features to Kronos in future updates.

But to reiterate - just because there isn't graphic editing doesn’t make it graphically lame - the management of the 32 tracks, EQ, effects and VERY tight and flexible integration with the control surface make it very nice indeed. On the controller front - you can have the eight faders and knobs control level and pan in 8 track blocks, or you can switch to single channel mode where all the knobs become the complete eq and effects sends for just one channel. So, for example, realtime recording of eq, level, pan and effects send automation are all possible.

Sina - again I just think you are being too harsh. I mean, yes OASYS has its limits - but just how often do you use 64th note triplets?

EVERY instrument has its limits (for example, to this day, Logic Pro cannot record more than 16 MIDI channels simultaneously because it cannot differentiate ports on a MIDI interface it can only demix by MIDI channel). So here we are at Logic Pro (what, version 9?) and it can’t record 17 MIDI lines live. No there's a limitation. You could say the same about ever piece of music technology that exists. A grand piano can only play one sound! The point is these sequencers are very capable and on Kronos will surely only get better - and as it stands - the Kronos is incredibly useful.


I think your criticisms and wishes are valid - totally valid - but you are also being far too critical of what is a truly excellent, robust, very well specified and flexible recording package.

Kevin.

Kevin I really appreciate your comments and you make some very valid points.

However, lets remember that most of Kronos' technology isn't exactly new as it was around in 2005 when the much more expensive Oasys was released. You'd think that in 6+ years, Korg would have worked on the sequencer's GUI and at least incorporated what the M3 already had in it's V2 sequencer into the V1.0 Kronos OS.

It's been commented that those buying a Kronos often won't need to use the built in sequencer/HDR as they'll already have a DAW. However, to me, this means that Korg should have ditched the sequencer altogether.

Instruments such as the Korg M3 and Roland Fantom G have shown that a powerful hardware sequencer can be implemented. I've no doubt that those not inclined to use software sequencers will be able to produce fantastic music using the onboard Kronos sequencer. Korg have marketed the Kronos/Oasys/M3/Triton/Trinity etc etc as being instruments where you can complete your whole song idea from start to finish. Now, lets hope that the Kronos sequencer will continue to be developed in such a way that it will become a powerful hardware alternative to software for all those times when we're holidaying on that special desert island!

Slovenec wrote:Instruments such as the Korg M3 and Roland Fantom G have shown that a powerful hardware sequencer can be implemented.

You are kidding about the Roland Fantom G sequencer, right? I can list a number of design flaws with the Fantom-G sequencer....... For starter.... try editing more than one MIDI tracks at a time... or Try cutting a measure from track and paste it to another... Or try moving a song from one project to another.... Or try Making a copy of the song.... Or try auditioning different sounds with your tweaked PFX... or Try saving the effects as presets.... Granted the Fantom-G with it's 128 MIDI Tracks and dedicated external MIDI channels, is very powerful, but it's sequencer needs a LOT of improvement in Editing, Phrase, and Song management.

...

Shakil wrote:

Slovenec wrote:Instruments such as the Korg M3 and Roland Fantom G have shown that a powerful hardware sequencer can be implemented.

You are kidding about the Roland Fantom G sequencer, right? I can list a number of design flaws with the Fantom-G sequencer....... For starter.... try editing more than one MIDI tracks at a time... or Try cutting a measure from track and paste it to another... Or try moving a song from one project to another.... Or try Making a copy of the song.... Or try auditioning different sounds with your tweaked PFX... or Try saving the effects as presets.... Granted the Fantom-G with it's 128 MIDI Tracks and dedicated external MIDI channels, is very powerful, but it's sequencer needs a LOT of improvement in Editing, Phrase, and Song management.

shakil.... song management is not the sequencers problem.....

as it relates to effects....etc it is a very powerful machine

that said the fantom g sequencer is based on a project bases.... what's put in a project is meant for that project.....

Sina172 wrote:

Shakil wrote:

Slovenec wrote:Instruments such as the Korg M3 and Roland Fantom G have shown that a powerful hardware sequencer can be implemented.

You are kidding about the Roland Fantom G sequencer, right? I can list a number of design flaws with the Fantom-G sequencer....... For starter.... try editing more than one MIDI tracks at a time... or Try cutting a measure from track and paste it to another... Or try moving a song from one project to another.... Or try Making a copy of the song.... Or try auditioning different sounds with your tweaked PFX... or Try saving the effects as presets.... Granted the Fantom-G with it's 128 MIDI Tracks and dedicated external MIDI channels, is very powerful, but it's sequencer needs a LOT of improvement in Editing, Phrase, and Song management.

ALL of which the Fantom-X have, by the way!

(sigh)

Sina

is interestingly odd that they went backwards though.....