Hey all, I'm working on some covers of a couple dubsteppish songs, namely the Ephixa remixes of Lost woods and Gerudo Valley from Zelda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU75uz0b8EU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSHW_iLXTac
Anyway, I know i'll never be able to recreate those types of sounds with teh M50 but i'd at least liek to get something similar that doesnt end up sounding cheesy and amateurish. I think ive got a good grasp on how to use the filters and LFOs and such, but am just having a hard time making everything sound grungy. Seems liek addign a distirtion effect doesnt really do it complete justice. There are some things like decimator and ring modulator that i think could help but Not really sure what to do there.
Any tips? Especially want to try to get that neat effect of the bass in the gerudo valley one.
Creating more massive leads.
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
First tip (if you haven't already done this):
Go into the PROG P1: Basic/Ctrls (Basic/Controllers) page and switch to Mono, then check the Unison button. Detune a few cents (6-10), adjust the number of voices (2 to 3 should be ample), and experiment with the thickness setting. This should make a huge difference to start.
Second tip: For the grunge setting, go to the PROG P4: Amp/EQ page and add some Drive and drive intensity and a little low boost. You may also need to lower the Amp Level here if the signal gets too hot. Further, you can modulate the drive and low boost with controllers, if you want.
What (I think) you're hearing in the Gerudo Valley track is not an effect on the bass, but rather a rhythmically vocoded synth patch. You might try using the 2Voice Resonator effect to get close...
Go into the PROG P1: Basic/Ctrls (Basic/Controllers) page and switch to Mono, then check the Unison button. Detune a few cents (6-10), adjust the number of voices (2 to 3 should be ample), and experiment with the thickness setting. This should make a huge difference to start.
Second tip: For the grunge setting, go to the PROG P4: Amp/EQ page and add some Drive and drive intensity and a little low boost. You may also need to lower the Amp Level here if the signal gets too hot. Further, you can modulate the drive and low boost with controllers, if you want.
What (I think) you're hearing in the Gerudo Valley track is not an effect on the bass, but rather a rhythmically vocoded synth patch. You might try using the 2Voice Resonator effect to get close...
Thanks! I've always wondered about the 2voice resonator effect as it usually jsut ends up making things sound overly harsh when i use it, but this may be a good chance. Also, any suggestions for what oscillators to use? Usually i jsut stick with the basic square/saw/pulse etc, but i know theres a ton available in the wavestation section and its hard to know which ones will sound good when put uner all that heavy modulation.
A second question whiel i'm at it. I want to try ton understand how to use the AMS mixer settings, but its very confusing for me, even after reading the manual. Basicaly want to use it so that the LFO will vary on its own. Maybe start out at 9hz and then by the end of the measure its dropped down to 2.25 ot something to that effect. Know where a good tutorial on that would be?
A second question whiel i'm at it. I want to try ton understand how to use the AMS mixer settings, but its very confusing for me, even after reading the manual. Basicaly want to use it so that the LFO will vary on its own. Maybe start out at 9hz and then by the end of the measure its dropped down to 2.25 ot something to that effect. Know where a good tutorial on that would be?
I think you should just try the waveforms and see what you like -- I wouldn't worry about trying to replicate what you hear in other recordings. A lot of those Wavestation sounds were sampled from a Sequential Circuits Prophet VS, if I recall correctly. I really love those waveforms (I also own three Wavestations, but that's a topic for another day). I also love the OBSAW waveform. It's still a saw wave, but its character is completely different from the others...
I haven't found any tutorials anywhere for the AMS mixers, which is a real shame. They are incredibly powerful and I get them, kind of, but I don't know everything there is to know about them. But you don't necessarily need an AMS mixer to do what you want. You could modify the rate of one LFO with another LFO, or even better perhaps modify the rate (freq. modulation) of the LFO using one of the envelope generators -- Pitch EG for instance. Chances are you won't be using the Pitch EG to modify Pitch, so it's a good envelope to use for modulating other parameters. This would be my choice. You can (more or less) precisely define the speed of the LFO by the envelope shape. On the LFO page, set the AMS1 parameter to Pitch EG (intensity around 50 or so), and then head over to the Osc / Pitch EG page and create an envelope with a very fast attack and an appropriate decay to slow down the LFO speed. You may need to go back and adjust the intensity value on the LFO page as may be required.
I haven't found any tutorials anywhere for the AMS mixers, which is a real shame. They are incredibly powerful and I get them, kind of, but I don't know everything there is to know about them. But you don't necessarily need an AMS mixer to do what you want. You could modify the rate of one LFO with another LFO, or even better perhaps modify the rate (freq. modulation) of the LFO using one of the envelope generators -- Pitch EG for instance. Chances are you won't be using the Pitch EG to modify Pitch, so it's a good envelope to use for modulating other parameters. This would be my choice. You can (more or less) precisely define the speed of the LFO by the envelope shape. On the LFO page, set the AMS1 parameter to Pitch EG (intensity around 50 or so), and then head over to the Osc / Pitch EG page and create an envelope with a very fast attack and an appropriate decay to slow down the LFO speed. You may need to go back and adjust the intensity value on the LFO page as may be required.
Ah okay gotcha. I rmember seeign that OBSAW one and liking it. Also, many of the VS## samples had good sounds I was looking or.
And I had never thought of using the Various EGs to modualte anything else other than what they would usually be used for. Guess i've never quite understood how the routing of all that works, but i think i can figure it out.
Lastly, do you know if there would be any to, um, quantize(?) the LFO rate if its synced to the BPM? for instance if i were to set the frequency to 50 and get 8th notes or whatever it happens to be, and then use the Expression pedal as a means to increase it by an amount of +33 then it will go to 16th notes (that's not right but just pretend it is). Now all the values in between arent really exact rates compared to the BPM. What I would liek to do is have it "jump" from 8ths to triplet 8ths to 16ths at whatever bpm i am using.
Any way of making this work, or is MIDI BPM sync jsut stuck wherever you put it?
Thanks again for your replies!
And I had never thought of using the Various EGs to modualte anything else other than what they would usually be used for. Guess i've never quite understood how the routing of all that works, but i think i can figure it out.
Lastly, do you know if there would be any to, um, quantize(?) the LFO rate if its synced to the BPM? for instance if i were to set the frequency to 50 and get 8th notes or whatever it happens to be, and then use the Expression pedal as a means to increase it by an amount of +33 then it will go to 16th notes (that's not right but just pretend it is). Now all the values in between arent really exact rates compared to the BPM. What I would liek to do is have it "jump" from 8ths to triplet 8ths to 16ths at whatever bpm i am using.
Any way of making this work, or is MIDI BPM sync jsut stuck wherever you put it?
Thanks again for your replies!
Well, once an LFO is synced to the BPM, you really can't change its frequency, not even with Tone Adjust sadly. But there is a workaround.
What you need are two almost identical LFOs. One set up for 8th notes, the other for 16ths. I think the most efficient way to switch between the two would probably be using the Gate Control AMS Mixer. If you go to page 55 of your Parameter Guide, you can see that one of the things this AMS Mixer can do is:
Go to the AMS1 page. Select Gate Control from the choices.
You will want to set the Control Source to your Expression Pedal. You might try setting the threshold to 64, which is likely to be the halfway position of your pedal. (You could probably also set the threshold to 1 or something, depending on how you use your pedal). The idea is that if you keep the pedal up before the halfway point, LFO1 will be turned on. If you press it down past the halfway point, LFO2 will turn on and LFO1 will turn off. So...
For AMS A, select the AMS field and choose LFO1.
For AMS B, select the AMS field and choose LFO2.
You won't hear anything yet...
Now, set up your LFOs for oscillator 1 to be synced to BPM. LFO1 to 8th notes, LFO2 to 16ths. They should be identical apart from those two settings.
Right, so if you were going to use these LFOs to modulate the Filter, then you would go to the Filter1 Mod page (pg 34 in your manual). In either the AMS1 or AMS2 fields under the Filter A/B Modulation section, put in AMS Mixer1 as the source for Filter A. Set the Intensity to 99 for now (you can change this later to suit).
Now, if you push the pedal all the way down, you should hear LFO2 or 16ths notes. If you bring the pedal back up, you should hear LFO1 or 8th notes.
Note, you can now also use this gate source to control other parameters, not just the filter, if you want. You could even "gate the gate control" with one of the switches SW1 or SW2 by using a second AMS Mixer - Amt AxB - to module the first AMS Mixer, so that the pedal won't affect anything until you press the switch. That's the theory, anyway.
What you need are two almost identical LFOs. One set up for 8th notes, the other for 16ths. I think the most efficient way to switch between the two would probably be using the Gate Control AMS Mixer. If you go to page 55 of your Parameter Guide, you can see that one of the things this AMS Mixer can do is:
I'm not 100% on how this works, but I'll try to get you started in the right direction and you can try to work it out from there if I lead you astray. I'm going to assume we're working with Osc 1.Use the joystick, switches, or controllers to change between two separate LFOs (or other AMS sources).
Go to the AMS1 page. Select Gate Control from the choices.
You will want to set the Control Source to your Expression Pedal. You might try setting the threshold to 64, which is likely to be the halfway position of your pedal. (You could probably also set the threshold to 1 or something, depending on how you use your pedal). The idea is that if you keep the pedal up before the halfway point, LFO1 will be turned on. If you press it down past the halfway point, LFO2 will turn on and LFO1 will turn off. So...
For AMS A, select the AMS field and choose LFO1.
For AMS B, select the AMS field and choose LFO2.
You won't hear anything yet...
Now, set up your LFOs for oscillator 1 to be synced to BPM. LFO1 to 8th notes, LFO2 to 16ths. They should be identical apart from those two settings.
Right, so if you were going to use these LFOs to modulate the Filter, then you would go to the Filter1 Mod page (pg 34 in your manual). In either the AMS1 or AMS2 fields under the Filter A/B Modulation section, put in AMS Mixer1 as the source for Filter A. Set the Intensity to 99 for now (you can change this later to suit).
Now, if you push the pedal all the way down, you should hear LFO2 or 16ths notes. If you bring the pedal back up, you should hear LFO1 or 8th notes.
Note, you can now also use this gate source to control other parameters, not just the filter, if you want. You could even "gate the gate control" with one of the switches SW1 or SW2 by using a second AMS Mixer - Amt AxB - to module the first AMS Mixer, so that the pedal won't affect anything until you press the switch. That's the theory, anyway.
By the way, if you don't want to be locked in to using BPM sync, and you're willing to do a little math (or use an online calc -- link below) you do have another option by using the Quantize AMS Mixer. It's kind of painful... maybe someone else has a much better way. I hope so.
In this situation, select Quantize as the AMS Mixer 1. For now, put in 4 for the number of steps. You can experiment with this value later. Set it to your controller of choice, e.g. Expression pedal.
On the LFO page, under Freq Modulation, in the AMS1 spot select the AMS Mixer1. Set the intensity to 99.
Make sure BPM sync is unchecked. Then dial in a Frequency near the top of this page. If you know what BPM you want "sync" to, then first use this calculator: http://www.thewhippinpost.co.uk/tools/d ... ulator.htm It's the last calc on the page. Enter in your BPM value and it will do most of the work for you.
You'll then need to compare the Hz given in the calc to the table in the Parameter Guide on pg. 48.
So for example, if you're playing at 120bpm, the LFO's freq value for a quarter note should be around 41, I guess. A value for a half note is around 30. One of these values will be your "start point" -- the rate the LFO will cycle when the pedal is not pressed down.
If you're going to use the LFO to modulate the filter, go to the Filter1 LFO mod page and in the AMS box, choose LFO1 and set an intensity value.
Anyway, when you push the expression pedal down, the LFO's rate should increase in precise steps, modulating What those steps might be...? I dunno. You'll have to experiment with the Quantize value back in the AMS Mixer 1 page.
I'd much prefer to sync using the BPM option, even if it only gives me two choices...
In this situation, select Quantize as the AMS Mixer 1. For now, put in 4 for the number of steps. You can experiment with this value later. Set it to your controller of choice, e.g. Expression pedal.
On the LFO page, under Freq Modulation, in the AMS1 spot select the AMS Mixer1. Set the intensity to 99.
Make sure BPM sync is unchecked. Then dial in a Frequency near the top of this page. If you know what BPM you want "sync" to, then first use this calculator: http://www.thewhippinpost.co.uk/tools/d ... ulator.htm It's the last calc on the page. Enter in your BPM value and it will do most of the work for you.
You'll then need to compare the Hz given in the calc to the table in the Parameter Guide on pg. 48.
So for example, if you're playing at 120bpm, the LFO's freq value for a quarter note should be around 41, I guess. A value for a half note is around 30. One of these values will be your "start point" -- the rate the LFO will cycle when the pedal is not pressed down.
If you're going to use the LFO to modulate the filter, go to the Filter1 LFO mod page and in the AMS box, choose LFO1 and set an intensity value.
Anyway, when you push the expression pedal down, the LFO's rate should increase in precise steps, modulating What those steps might be...? I dunno. You'll have to experiment with the Quantize value back in the AMS Mixer 1 page.
I'd much prefer to sync using the BPM option, even if it only gives me two choices...
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iamtheswordmaster
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