Pa1X vs Pa3X

[pippuzzo]

Hi,

as a former Pa1X owner I created a list to found out what the Pa3X changed:

PRO:
TFT bright display + tilting screen
dnc sounds
maxx bass
internal clock
faster startup with loaded samples
better layout (tempo buttons + real time track + no up/down bank switch buttons for sty/perf + important buttons at screen side + tc controls + style buttons (intro/var/end) in the right order, ...)
ribbon
chord recorder
4 fills + break with autofill function
guitar mode
score
search
mp3 standard
separate legacy/gm banks
track eq
fx insert
drum family full edit
more controls on pads fx + eq
vocal remover
more pcm, pcm user, user banks

CONS:
direct fd function disappeared.

Hope having included everything, any hint is appreciated.

So I can see good and important improvements changing to the last model, this despite some discussions saying that Korg is re-doing always the same thing.
Have to disagree on this, and at the end not everything can be changed on every model. This it is also what happen with major DAW: a constant evolution of a good basic concept.

But please Korg give us back the direct style pre-listen: it is simply too important and useful!

Cheers.

[karmathanever]

Hi

Yes the PA3X is an awesome upgrade from the PA1X

DIRECTFD requires FDs and an FD drive which are hard to get now, so I guess you are asking for a DIRECTUSB feature??

The DIRECTHD is not really of much use now as you have all the Favorites and User banks to use for testing styles.
The DIRECTHD/FD feature still required configuration and it was designed as a "STYLE BANKS EXTENSION" feature allowing you to have more styles "ready to play".

There has never been a way to pre-listen to styles as they always have to be in a STYLE banks to be heard.
Many in the past have asked if someone could create some software to "pre-listen" to styles on a PC.

If the PA3X did have the DIRECTHD then you still have to create the 123,456,789 style folders, on your internal hard drive/USB etc...
I can't personally see any advantage - by the time I have done that I could have loaded the style(s) into a USER or FAVORITE bank and heard them - it is very fast and easy.

Hope you get your PA3X soon.

Cheers

Pete

[pippuzzo]

Hi,

>> DIRECTFD requires FDs and an FD drive which are hard to get now, so I guess you are asking for a DIRECTUSB feature??

yes I meant a direct style reading from the USB

>> The DIRECTHD is not really of much use now as you have all the Favorites and User banks to use for testing styles.

no actually there are plenty of internal banks available, therefore I was not looking at the HD reading but the USB reading

>> There has never been a way to pre-listen to styles as they always have to be in a STYLE banks to be heard.

btw the bank concept is not really straighforward IMHO, but I used all the time the old DirectFD feature to pre-listen styles without the need to load them in the internal memory.

>> ... the style(s) into a USER or FAVORITE bank and heard them - it is very fast and easy

sorry but have to disagree on this. As a former owner of Pa1X and Tyros I must say that loading all the time styles in the internal memory require always:
1) find an empty location or bank to avoid cancel any good material
2) go to disk, use the loading functions (bank or single)
3) usually for a bank you may want to use only a couple of styles, so normally you need to reload them just using the single loading (another complication and loss of time - Tyros has a convenient copy function)
4) if the style is no good you have to delete it if any
With the direct USB feature you can hear directly the style from the pen drive completely jumping the steps above and loading in the internal memory only good styles. THIS is really fast and easy, not the current implementation.
Sorry but I'm absolutely not with you in this case. If you use direct USB for some time you will never looking back, I'm sure.

>> Hope you get your PA3X soon.

frankly speaking I already have my Pa3X with me, and this is why I'm complaining for the lack of this feature, as said, available in old (more than 10 years for the former) Pa80/Pa1X and then disappeared without any logical reason. We have now much more Korg styles around than 10 years ago and that's why now will be even more usable than ever.
Just my 0,001%.

Cheers.

[karmathanever]

1) find an empty location or bank to avoid cancel any good material
2) go to disk, use the loading functions (bank or single)
3) usually for a bank you may want to use only a couple of styles, so normally you need to reload them just using the single loading (another complication and loss of time - Tyros has a convenient copy function)
4) if the style is no good you have to delete it if any
With the direct USB feature you can hear directly the style from the pen drive completely jumping the steps above and loading in the internal memory only good styles. THIS is really fast and easy, not the current implementation.
Sorry but I'm absolutely not with you in this case. If you use direct USB for some time you will never looking back, I'm sure.

Fully understand your disappointment, however, for me, I really don't find it that time-consuming.
If we had an "equivalent" DIRECTUSB, then first you have to create the STY folders with the correct names and then create the DIRECTUSB folder - exactly as for DIRECTHD on PA1X - by the time that is done, I could have already started reviewing styles with a simple bank(s) load.
I used DIRECTHD on my PA1XPro as an extra set of style banks (which is its intention) - I find that reviewing styles on the PA1XPro and PA3XPro equally painful/painless (whichever is your feeling). I apologise if I have misunderstood you - please set me right if I have.
However, if you need a "DIRECTUSB" for the purpose of extra style bank space, then that is different.

To refer to your "steps" quoted above - this is how I do it:-
Step 1 is not necessary for me - I just choose a bank (any - usually USER01 - sometimes more banks) as my "testing area"
Step 2 - yep, load them all - usually takes about a matter of seconds - now I have all the styles ready for review
Step 3 - for me would be, play the styles and establish which ones I want
Step 4 - for me, no style deletions ever necessary - reset my test bank(s) to its/their original
Step 5 - Load the new styles I like into the bank locations I choose - normally one-by-one as I like to have my styles organised in relevant banks

My intention is NOT "argument" - I just couldn't figure out how much real time you would save with a DIRECTUSB feature and wanted to explain how I approach it since PA1XPro days

Cheers

Pete

[Bigwhale2012]

1) find an empty location or bank to avoid cancel any good material
2) go to disk, use the loading functions (bank or single)
3) usually for a bank you may want to use only a couple of styles, so normally you need to reload them just using the single loading (another complication and loss of time - Tyros has a convenient copy function)
4) if the style is no good you have to delete it if any
With the direct USB feature you can hear directly the style from the pen drive completely jumping the steps above and loading in the internal memory only good styles. THIS is really fast and easy, not the current implementation.
Sorry but I'm absolutely not with you in this case. If you use direct USB for some time you will never looking back, I'm sure.

Fully understand your disappointment, however, for me, I really don't find it that time-consuming.
If we had an "equivalent" DIRECTUSB, then first you have to create the STY folders with the correct names and then create the DIRECTUSB folder - exactly as for DIRECTHD on PA1X - by the time that is done, I could have already started reviewing styles with a simple bank(s) load.
I used DIRECTHD on my PA1XPro as an extra set of style banks (which is its intention) - I find that reviewing styles on the PA1XPro and PA3XPro equally painful/painless (whichever is your feeling). I apologise if I have misunderstood you - please set me right if I have.
However, if you need a "DIRECTUSB" for the purpose of extra style bank space, then that is different.

To refer to your "steps" quoted above - this is how I do it:-
Step 1 is not necessary for me - I just choose a bank (any - usually USER01 - sometimes more banks) as my "testing area"
Step 2 - yep, load them all - usually takes about a matter of seconds - now I have all the styles ready for review
Step 3 - for me would be, play the styles and establish which ones I want
Step 4 - for me, no style deletions ever necessary - reset my test bank(s) to its/their original
Step 5 - Load the new styles I like into the bank locations I choose - normally one-by-one as I like to have my styles organised in relevant banks

My intention is NOT "argument" - I just couldn't figure out how much real time you would save with a DIRECTUSB feature and wanted to explain how I approach it since PA1XPro days

Cheers

Pete

Hello,

I am newbie for Korg and wish to explore more about this Pa3X which Ijust brought 2 weeks ago.

I studied this OS and how to use it. I wonder if there are any different in styles amongst Pa3x and the older.


Thanks.

[karmathanever]

Hi

I wonder if there are any different in styles amongst Pa3x and the older.

Yes there are

From i3, i30, PA2XPro, PA1XPro, PA588

Here are some links to my zips of the various styles from older Korg arrangers - these can all be loaded on the PA3X
There are many different styles (even if they have the same style name) but you will have to sift through them.

Please make sure you back up everything first
PA1X styles:- http://www.mediafire.com/?6lrxoez477cclx7
i30 styles:- http://www.mediafire.com/?15s1afxz4gaccw7
i3 styles:- http://www.mediafire.com/?mta1k4l77cbmpt6
PA2X factory styles:- http://www.mediafire.com/?1cgg9f1z5ct5c8g
PA2X gig styles:- http://www.mediafire.com/?jg9kj31an17ys4b

Have fun

Pete

[pippuzzo]

Hi Pete,

>> If we had an "equivalent" DIRECTUSB, then first you have to create the STY folders with the correct names and then create the DIRECTUSB folder - exactly as for DIRECTHD on PA1X - by the time that is done, I could have already started reviewing styles with a simple bank(s) load.

the concept of having the Directusb folder (coming from the old Directfd in Pa1X) with all its internal folder structure it is really archaic. I really guess Korg find an easy solution to move on. And also the bank style concept is archaic, with its limitation to fixed number (that now is 40 but sometimes I would like to be able to fix by myself). Coming from Tyros that has freedom in creating folders and using single style files inside them (without number limitation) it is like going back to a nightmare in Pa3X. And the Tyros simple concept will solve also the problem of people asking for a librarian computer app for computer: Yamaha customers never asked this since they don't need this. Korg created an overcomplicated file hierarchy that has no equal on the market and no real advantages IMHO and does not offered a solution for this. There are a lot of people in the forum asking for a pc utility a complaining about this file handling problem and we know this is a fact, right?
I suggest you to try a Tyros and see how simple is, btw including the possibility of copying, deleting and renaming styles easily: you'll never look back.
Then back to your question: I need anyway to copy my files in pen drive, and reading them immediatly (Korg need to find how-see above) without loading them into memory and erasing my user locations, well it looks to me a time saver. But not only, it is also thinking about a more straighforward worflow in general, passing through a simpler file structure with the directusb feature on top of this.

>> However, if you need a "DIRECTUSB" for the purpose of extra style bank space, then that is different.

if the function works well than I would like to use it also as extra bank space, why not? The direct style reading (both in Pa1X and in Tyros) solved me some gigs without the need to change my internal user locations, just playing them from a removable media. This can add flexibility too, cannot see any counterside in using directusb also as extra space.

>> Step 1 is not necessary for me - I just choose a bank (any - usually USER01 - sometimes more banks) as my "testing area"

I use always all the user banks to duplicate the factory families genres (I leave always the factory area untouched): they are 15 factory and 15 user so I have the first tab both in factory and user that is pop, the second is always ballad, etc. etc. - unique exceptions are traditional and world banks that I replaced with pop that I need more. This help me to have always similar genre in similar tab positions. Therefore anytime I want to check new styles I need to overwrite a bank, than test the new, than reload the previous one.

This is just my opinion, that I like to exchange with your.
Sorry to push hard on this question very often with mention to Tyros but having used both systems I'm quite sure there is something wrong to address in pa3x.
Btw no other people is interested? This looks a little strange indeed!
I guess this useful for everybody.

Cheers.

[charlie67]

The direct FD was a good system. Even the old PA50 had direct FD. You could play the styles on the floppy discs (48 styles per floppy if I remember correctly) with out the need to load the styles into the keyboard. I suppose Korg dropped this arrangement because the newer memory cards and pen drives are so much faster, but it was a good system nevertheless. Incidentally, the new PA600 has a simple style copying, renaming and deleting function, including batch or multi delete.

[pippuzzo]

Hi,

@ karma
>> these things and features are very much in the "desires" of the beholder

direct reading was available in old models (as also charlie67 pointed out), it was useful and working to me. more than a desire or a wish I consider this something I must (more fair saying "want") have back, not just asking a new feature. Just continuing working with my pa3x I face the fact that there are much more styles available today against old pa1x times, that makes me anytime reconsidering how practical was.

>> "Simple" is why I no longer own a Tyros

I was of course meaning only about the disk/file handling, you know.
That's not enough to regret being back to Korg after owing a Tyros.
Anyway this specific problem looks one of the very few to complain about, and something to push for a solution from Korg IMHO.

@ charlie67
>> Incidentally, the new PA600 has a simple style copying, renaming and deleting function, including batch or multi delete.

argh, didn't know about this, thanks for the hint. Have to check out this.
this is probably Korg understanding the problem and starting to provide solutions, isn't it?
if the code is available cannot this be ported immediatly in pa3x?!?

>> I suppose Korg dropped this arrangement because the newer memory cards and pen drives are so much faster

sorry don't get this: having faster and larger pen drives against the old beloved floppy disk can be a stopper for direct reading?
IMO must be something that encourage you to use this instead, not stopping. Please advise if I did not understand your point correctly.

Cheers.

[charlie67]

I am not making excuses for Korg, just trying to find a reason for Korg dropping the direct system. The fact that loading styles with memory cards and pen drives is so much faster than floppy discs is the only reason that I can think of offhand. The direct system would be much better for listening to and playing styles before deciding whether to load them. Maybe the newer technology presents a problem that Korg haven’t solved or don’t wish to solve.

[charlie67]

Interesting to read your comments. As I have already given my views I won't add any more otherwise it will look like an argument

[pippuzzo]

argument?

Not at all, just discussing and sharing our experiences, that's it

[charlie67]

Sorry Pippuzzo, that comment was not meant for you.It was meant for Karmathanever. He’s been up to his old tricks again. I was replying to a comment he made but unfortunately he has deleted his post, before you had a chance to see it. I will be making a complaint to Sharp about this behaviour. It now looks as if I am replying to you but this is not so. Hopefully other members will have seen it before it was deleted. Actually when I look again, I think he has deleted two posts. This is disgraceful conduct from an administrator.

[karmathanever]

Here we go again Charlie

What is your problem (yet again)?
Sent you a PM in the hope that some forum space is spared from future, ridiculous sarcastic messages.
I just choose to not be part of it in the hope that there is nothing left for you to personally shoot at.
(apologies pippuzzo)
Management of your own messages is everyone's choice on these forums - nothing to do with "administration".

Gather your "anti-me" supporters and complain away my friend - I welcome it...

[duby2]

charlie67
You must ask Korg why they remover or drop the direct system , the forum can just guess at why ,,I ask the same thing why the flagship has a little screen and less expensive keyboard has a big screen ,, and no one here know , I ask korg and I still waiting , I am not hold my breath ,, korg