Upgrade 2nd hand Kronos to Kronos X?

[Kevin Nolan]

Apologies if this has been done to death but would be grateful for pointers on two issues associated with buying a 2nd hand Kronos (73 or 88):

1. What serial number range should I be looking at to be sure the Kronos keybed is one of the newer ones?


2. If I buy a 2nd hand Kronos, can I upgrade it to the Kronos X spec? If so:

- how much does that cost

- what exactly is the difference in spec

- can I do it or does it need to be done by a Korg service center?


Thanks!
Kevin.

[schroed3r1]

From what I understand there really is no set serial numbers that have the keybed issues, although i'm wondering if the earlier #s are more prone to the problem.

On the issue of the upgrade, here is the email i received from an authorized service center near me:

Korg offers two upgrades for the Kronos workstation:

1. The first includes a 30-GB SSD (solid-state drive) plus all of the necessary cables and hardware. It also includes additional user documentation and demos of Korg’s EX libraries. It costs $199.00.

2. The second option consists of just the cables and hardware, but has no SSD. It costs $24.00. The second option permits users to bring their own SSD to be installed. Korg recommends the Intel 520 series drives - 60-GB or 120-GB, or the Intel 320 series - 40-GB or 80-GB.


Labor to install these options would be $75.00 + tax

You could do it yourself, since you probably don't have a warranty anymore.

[Kevin Nolan]

From what I understand there really is no set serial numbers that have the keybed issues, although i'm wondering if the earlier #s are more prone to the problem.

On the issue of the upgrade, here is the email i received from an authorized service center near me:

Korg offers two upgrades for the Kronos workstation:

1. The first includes a 30-GB SSD (solid-state drive) plus all of the necessary cables and hardware. It also includes additional user documentation and demos of Korg’s EX libraries. It costs $199.00.

2. The second option consists of just the cables and hardware, but has no SSD. It costs $24.00. The second option permits users to bring their own SSD to be installed. Korg recommends the Intel 520 series drives - 60-GB or 120-GB, or the Intel 320 series - 40-GB or 80-GB.


Labor to install these options would be $75.00 + tax

You could do it yourself, since you probably don't have a warranty anymore.

I'm sure I read that there was a cutoff serial number below which an older kebed is used

Also - doesn't the KronosX have larger SSD's and more RAM?

(again I'm not too clear on this and am happy to stand corrected)

[schroed3r1]

This is from Synthtopia:

■The Kronos X doubles the PCM RAM capacity to approximately 2GB and the SSD capacity to 62GB, letting you take full advantage of Kronos Sound Libraries.
■Kronos X contains Korg?s EXs 10-13 expansion sample series of Kronos Sound Libraries pre-installed in its demo mode. Users can obtain full versions, plus additional Sound Libraries, by purchasing a license key from the Web Shop.

[SanderXpander]

The keybed serial is only important for the weighted boards, so 73 and 88. The often quoted good/bad line is around serial 3600 but my 88 was 39xx and still had the issue. Best option is really to test it very thoroughly. Basically you play very softly in the lower register and look for cut off notes. It can help to play a little high up on the key, near the main body of the unit.

You can upgrade relatively easily to X spec or better. You do need to ask yourself if it's necessary. The difference is the X has 3GB RAM (1.18GB free after a normal boot) and the regular one has 2GB (so 0.18GB free after a regular boot). This has nothing to do with performance, just with the amount of user samples you can load. If you're not going to sample much or load external samples you will not know the difference. The X also has a bigger SSD drive, 60GB instead of 30GB. You could put a much larger disk in if you wanted. This is only important if you are, again, going to be using/storing a lot of user samples or recording a lot of audio on your Kronos. Otherwise, again, zero difference. There is plenty of space on there to load non-sample based sound libraries (such as those offered by Qui, or many in the download section of this site), and more than enough to backup your own sounds/banks.

There are a couple of tutorials on here and while it is generally recommended to let the upgrade be done by a service center, that is mainly because warranty is voided if you don't. In your case, as a second owner, as far as I'm aware you're not eligible for warranty anyway (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) because warranty is nontransferable. So if you're reasonably technically competent and know how to properly handle sensitive computer parts the actual job is really simple.

Depending on the size of the disk you wanted, the whole thing would probably cost you somewhere between 80 and 180 dollars. I have a 128GB disk myself which goes for 100 bucks, and I'm sure I'll never, ever, fill it.

[Francois]

1. What serial number range should I be looking at to be sure the Kronos keybed is one of the newer ones?

Instead of reasoning based on serial numbers, I would buy a used one that has already been fixed by Korg, regardeless of whether it is 1000 or 3000 or 5000. And test it for yourself just to make sure.

can I upgrade it to the Kronos X spec?

Yes, you can. The X has a slightly different mobo and CPU, different and maximum RAM, but nothing worth fretting about. Add RAM, a larger SSD and you're there.

how much does that cost

Too much for what it is if you have it done by Korg. I vaguely recall something along the lines of €299 to get this done. To get 1Mb of RAM and a 60 Gb SSD, it's borderline highway robbery.

what exactly is the difference in spec

See above, but don't sweat it. It really makes no difference.

can I do it or does it need to be done by a Korg service center?

It all depends on how confident you are in your capacities to do it yourself. It's no more difficult than upgrading a PC. If you take your time, the procedure to add extra RAM and change the SSD or add anotehr one has been documented and is not a taxing thing to do. But everyone will have their own mileage.

To conclude, I would say that if you can do the mods yourself and can find a used Kronos that has already been fixed by Korg, then it's worth buying one. But if you don't know whether the Kronos has been fixed AND you cannot upgrade it yourself, then buying the X makes sense.

[Ojustaboo]

If it has blue contacts (shine a torch in the gaps between the notes) then it has definitely been upgraded to the new ones.

However, the replacement ones are now back to pink (in the UK can't speak for anywhere else) so just because it has pink contacts, doesn't mean it hasn't been upgraded.

As for serial numbers, korg know which ones could have bad contacts but refuse to let it be public knowledge (korg staff told me they know but were not allowed to say)

But, on karma labs forum, someone who registered on 17th January 2013 has bought a new 73 note Kronos in the UK, serial no: 2171 and he has the note cut off problem.

http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showpost ... tcount=228

[Kevin Nolan]

Thanks for all the fantastic advice. It worries me that someone bought one in January this year and had the key problem - I thought that was all resolved? Though it looks like they bough an old stock Kronos rather than a Kronos X

The issue for me IS the key bed- I'm a player and though not 'heavy' on a keyboard, I will put it through it's paces

'not so humorous' anecdote: I've been doing film scoring modules though UCLA running them remotely in Dublin through an organization called Screen Training Ireland (STI) - and and last year loaned my OASYS to STI for a fantastic 3-day session with composer Chris Young - but where on day one he proposed to the 20 of us, as a 'loosening up' exercise, to look at a piece of film footage and use the keyboard as 'a percussive instrument only'; where upon the slightest person in the room marched up to my OASYS, clenched their fists and proceeded to pound the keyboard for the 40secs to 1 minute of footage). I was in shock. But - my OASYS survived unscathed - I couldn't believe it - and it plays beautifully to this day !!!



or is that




But I'm a bit disappointed to hear that someone bought a Kronos in 2013 with the keybed problem. I realise I'm probably opening up a can of worms with this again - but is the KronosX OK in the keybed department or are KronosX owners having to have the same repair done (I'm genuinely not trying to open up this debate again - and haven't actuslly been following it closely in any case, but am now contemplating a Kronos or Kronos X and where the keyboard is important, hence why I'm asking).


Thanks,
Kevin.

[Francois]

That is because, for some unknown reason, or at least one not explained to us, Korg have not issued a recall and are waiting for people to send them their faulty Kronos to be fixed.

As to why they still let dealers sell Kronos with faulty keyboard in 2013 instead of making sure that all old stock units still available are OK, no idea. But this is something that really pisses me off! Not to mention it really gives Korg a bad name that we, afficionados, could do without, and that undermines confidence in their products from people who are not Korg fans.

And it's a real shame, as once sorted on the keyboard front, the rest is really superb.

[SanderXpander]

I haven't heard of any cases of a Kronos X with the keybed problem. But that's just me personally. It makes sense in any case since it came after the regular Kronos and they solved the keybed problem somewhere during that production run.

I have to say that my 88 had a very slight case of the problem, but after the (very simple) fix it plays beautifully now, I haven't had a single cut off note anymore.

[Kevin Nolan]

Yes SanderXpander - over all it looks like a Korg fix of the original Kronos or acquiring a Kronos X resolves the issue; with essentially nobody complaining of the problem subsequently.

So that all bodes very well for either acquiring a 2nd hand Kronos or a new Kronos X.


That's all very clear (and reassuring) to me now - thanks!

[Ksynth]

I did my own upgrade.

120GB SSD cost $96 usd

1GB DDR $18

Total time about 40 minutes.

I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for a smaller SSD and cheap ram as provided by Korg.

All the screws on the Kronos base are the same size. Get a cordless drill and screw drive bit.

[Ojustaboo]

So that all bodes very well for either acquiring a 2nd hand Kronos or a new Kronos X.

Sorry but no it doesn't.

I haven't heard of one case of the X having the cutoff problem so getting the X does bode very well (mind you my X has one key that rattles a lot and another that makes a boing boing boing mechanical type noise, although it plays perfectly, I had the note cutoff on my original Kronos, another problem on its replacement and the shop swapped it for the X free of charge)

However getting a second hand Kronos is a gamble.

Many users don't see the problem simply due to the way they play. This being the case, the person you buy your second hand Kronos could have not noticed the problem hence not got it fixed.

You will then have their Kronos but as the warranty isn't transferable, korg won't fix it for free (even though its a known fault).

I was speaking to a well known uk music store employee in January about the original Kronos. He said the one they have on display, none of the employees could produce the note cut off problem, but they had a customer in the previous day that could produce it every time. The obvious question is why is it still on display, but the trouble is, shop assistant tells manager a customer had a problem with the keybed, manager and other staff try it out and say its perfect.

As others have said, korg handled this appallingly. In my opinion they should publicly say which serials are guaranteed not to be affected by this fault and offer a free waranty fix to the others for just this problem regardless of whether its the original owner or not.

Personally I think by them not doing this, they have greatly devalued the second hand value of the original model.

[Kevin Nolan]

Take your point and broadly agree with you about how Korg handled it - mostly for the sake of their user base but also for their own reputation which up until now have been quite trustworthy. In fairness to Korg, it seems that they really do fix the problem once returned to them, so at least on a case by case basis things get resolved.


But what I meant by saying it all bodes well was - if buying Kronos then it's OK to buy either : 1) a 2nd hand one where the seller has already had the keybed problem resolved or 2) buy a Kronos X.


Kevin.

[Ojustaboo]

Ah, sorry I misunderstood. Yes its fine.

I also suspect you could possible persuade Korg to fix the problem if it did occur, although in the UK, the problem is getting it to them if you don't live nearby as I cant find a courier willing to insure it.

I want to add that my X is virtually perfect. I mention the two noisy keys,. they aren't noisy noisy and many people would think I was being picky if they heard them. I only notice it playing quietly, but its one of those things that when you know its there, you always hear it. I'm sure Korg would fix it but it's not bad enough for me to be without it for a week or two.

I had a nightmare with my original Kronos although Korg never stopped supporting me (basically I was without my new board for too long due to a few problems, which is why the shop replaced it with an X, Korg at no point stopped helping me) but after having my X for a few months, even if it suffered the note cut off problem (which none have) and half the keys fell off, while I would be annoyed, there's still no other board I would want in its place, I think you will be very very very happy. I get happier daily (the more I understand about it)