Korg Forums

Hi all,

I am working on a simple java program to convert Radias and R3 patches to Korg M3+exb-radias... I came quite far allready, but still have about 20% of the parameters to figure out.

For now it works like this:

R3: copying patch 1 timbre 1 to program 1 on M3, timbre 2 to prog 2,
patch 2 T1 to prog 3, patch 2 T2 to 4, etc.

with radias, all four timbres are send to a separate M3 program.

I am loading the R3L and RDL files and converting to an M3(+radias) .PCG file (only Bank U_E for now).

I think this was basically the idea of the r3l/rdl import function they SHOULD have activated in the M3 editor.....(shame on you korg )

I'm looking for testpersons for this as well..., as I cannot test everything (I do not own an R3 or microkorg XL, which I'm also working on, 70% done) and I can't compare in most cases...I only have radias and M3+exb-radias..

I'm also looking into importing from Ms2000 series, as the MMT engine is identical..

My question:

Does anyone have the FULL midi implementation chart of the Microkorg XL???

Anyone interested can send me a/some banks (or email) so I could do some further testing in converting them??


Thanks in advance!

I think it's great that you're writing this software. I feel obligated to let you know that the results of the conversions won't work in many cases, since the structure of the R3, Radias, MS2000, and MKXL are all sufficiently different from each other that some programs can never sound the same, or even similar, when they depend on these differences. The vocoder programs are a particular problem, but also anything that uses the mod sequencer or effects chain will be problems too. That's not to say that what you're working on is useless, since there are some programs that might convert OK or at least good enough to save some time vs. manually copying the parameters individually. Just because Korg has labelled this synths as MMT doesn't mean that the synth structure is the same for them. All of the manuals have block diagrams for the synth structure. If you carefully compare the diagrams side by side, you'll find some major differences. The structure of the synth is different in vocoding mode, so there's a separate diagram for that mode for each synth.

xmlguy wrote:I think it's great that you're writing this software. I feel obligated to let you know that the results of the conversions won't work in many cases, since the structure of the R3, Radias, MS2000, and MKXL are all sufficiently different from each other that some programs can never sound the same, or even similar, when they depend on these differences. The vocoder programs are a particular problem, but also anything that uses the mod sequencer or effects chain will be problems too. That's not to say that what you're working on is useless, since there are some programs that might convert OK or at least good enough to save some time vs. manually copying the parameters individually. Just because Korg has labelled this synths as MMT doesn't mean that the synth structure is the same for them. All of the manuals have block diagrams for the synth structure. If you carefully compare the diagrams side by side, you'll find some major differences. The structure of the synth is different in vocoding mode, so there's a separate diagram for that mode for each synth.

I know that in some cases (especially regarding effects, which I wil not try to convert for the obvious reasons) they will not sound exactly the same. For the single timbres that all synths work with, my program has started because of all the "tip" of most people to do the parameters manually by having both synth editors open and copy each one separately. With my conversion, manual labor is automated, so the "basic" timbres will be 90% (or better) similar to the sourcesynth.

I tested the radias > M3-exb myself, by copying manually first, then using my program, and found that the sounds were (nearly) equal.

I cannot test r3 and microkorg, as I do not own them.. but first tests with radias made me expand to other synths .

Regarding the mod sequencer, I am working on that... allready can transfer most parameters to M3+exb..

I wish you well in your efforts. I can't test it because I don't have an M3+EXB-Radias, but hopefully others will be able to help you do so.

Xmlguy..

Thanks! I will need that in some cases...and a fair amount of time as well... getting the parameters right takes a lot of testing.. espacially the microkorg XL took a lot of time allready..

Best of luck!

You should be alright because most of the parameters and voice structure is a subset of the functionality in the Radias and EXB-Radias. It's mainly the PCM waves that will cause a problem as the EXB does not have them at all.

I get the impression xmlguy might have thought you also intended to convert Radias patches to R3, XL to Radias, etc. as well.

Although if you get that far then perhaps converting to normal Radias format at least too might not be too much more work.

Well,

I will give a bit of background info from my point of view:

I recently bought a radias, whilst allready having an M3+exb-r. Beacause I wanted to be synth independant (some radiasvoices sound awesome with karma while the radiasvoice "only" uses the arpeggiator), I wanted to be able to have the same programs on the M3 as I have in the radias.

I search for eternity for a tool which would do that, but the only thing I read everywhere is:

"Impossible, you will have to do it manually."

So (keeping in mind both are MMT based, a radias quite similar) I started by manually copying a voice I really like on the radias to the M3. When that worked, I download all manuals and started comparing. I found that most of the bytes can simply be copied to the m3 counterpart, and some need tweaking (sometimes bits are shifted in the conversion).

With help of a fellow korgforum member (who created the base raw byte copy program for me) I started doing it automatically, with (in my opinion) great results..

The program is intended to not having to copy it manually, and simply saves a lot of time.

When that worked for most parts, I checked the r3 and microkorg xl compatibilty, and allready have the easiest parts done.

It is not particularly suited for DWGS and PCM programs for now, as these machines have different structures in that case.

"normal" osc programs convert fine.

Keep you posted.

X-Trade wrote:

Although if you get that far then perhaps converting to normal Radias format at least too might not be too much more work.

I've been thinking about that.....

Are there a lot of people interested in R3 > radias conversion ??? It should be possible as well.
I know (have seen) a convertion program from ms2000 to radias.. think I have it installed in my musiccomputer ...so I won't be doing that conversion most probably.

Requests anyone ?? keep in mind I will not be converting to R3 or ms2000, unless someone donates one to me so I can test the results

p.s. : programming takes a lot of my spare time so could take a while to implement/code.

regards,

X-Trade wrote: I get the impression xmlguy might have thought you also intended to convert Radias patches to R3, XL to Radias, etc. as well.

He did say that he was looking into "importing from Ms2000 series, as the MMT engine is identical", followed by a question about the midi for the MKXL. My point was that MMT doesn't mean identical engines, synth structure, effects, and PCM waveforms, so it's not so straight forward to successfully convert patches that depend on those differences. Radias to EXB-Radias is straight forward, and as I recall, I think that Radias programs can be imported directly on the M3 with the EXB-Radias. I vaguely remember seeing a menu option for that on the M3 or in the manual. The R3 structure is very similar to the Radias, so those should convert too, although the R3 has different names and arrangement of the waveforms. The MKXL is more different, since Korg added the Piano PCM and a few others, so those won't convert, and the vocoder has a different patch structure, where the 2 timbres get mixed as the carrier, while the R3 uses only one timbre for the carrier. The MS2000/MicroKorg would be the hardest to convert because there's a lot more differences between the older engine and the newer ones.

I have some microKorg / XL banks so if you want to have them, send me an email: michelkeijzers@hotmail.com.

Hi !

I would be interested to test your program in order to convert RDL files from Radias Rack to PCG files for EXB-Radias.

Thanks

Cédric