AL-1 vs King Korg

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:23 am

I've been looking at the King korg but I have to wonder, can it do anything that I can't do on my Kronos with my Al-1 engine? Sure, it has a tube but I can figure a way to emulate that with my IFX and an amp. I do like the fact that it has a lot of knobs but the Kronos has a bunch and I can assign them plus I can change them too. Just wondering.

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Mon May 06, 2013 5:33 am

I can only think about the modeling filters as well as the CV/Gate interface

levioter · Post by **levioter** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:00 am

Jeremykeys I was thinking exactly the same recently !
AL-1 has most of possiblities that can offer the KingKorg.
The only differences regarding the filters are the presets by type: Moog,P5,SEM (Oberheim),etc... And the ability to tune all the filter parms in realtime by the knobs.
I think Al-1 has potentially all the flexibility to create all types of sounds but the huge number of parameters does not help to achieve easily the targetted sound.
Presets like in the KingKorg would be by far easier.
May be we can start a new thread with some examples on how to program a "moogish" sound or a "SEM" sound etc.. I know one of our masters I named burningbush already gave us some P5 sounds.
What do you think ?

Cheers

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:18 am

I use both and see a HUGE difference.

a) Sound:
- AL1 delivers a very neutral sound. not reminiscent of any of the classical synths. I neither get anything Moog-like from it nor anything really reminding me of a Prophet 5, Oberheims etc. Looking at classical analog synths, at most I get some ARP-like sounds from it.
All in all, AL1 is rather a powerful modern synth of it's own character, than something suited to deliver classical analog sounds. If you take it as that, it is great - if you try to get classical synth sounds from it, you can forget most of that goal from my view.
- the KK (Kingkorg) offers a MUCH broader sonic palette. In my ears it's basic sound with the Korg filters is already significantly more smooth and analog-like than that of AL1, and the various other filter models are really well done and useable, and add a lot of easy access to classical analog sounds! For example I had no problem at all getting some Jan Hammer or George Duke lead sounds from the KK. And I have not been able to get close to these from any other hardware VA so far, including Access Virus(es), Nord Leads, Alesis, Novation etc., and all Kronos VAs.

Same for the tube: Tube overdrive belongs to the really VERY weak effects in a Kronos (while it has overwhelming good reverbs, delays and modulation effects). On a Kronos, with the present effects it is simply not possible to get any decent overdriven B3, EP, or synth sound in good quality. Overdrive sounds dreadful harsh and digital on the Kronos: something which should be on top of a list of possible future changes in the effects section IMHO. On the KK, in sharp contrast, the tube overdrive belongs to the best I ever met on any keyboard. It delivers anything from warm saturation over creamy overdrive up to slight tube screaming. KK and Kronos worlds apart!

b) Sound shaping
While I have a lot of fun with the Kronos Polysix and MS-20, I simply get no intuitve connection to AL-1. Whenever I try to program something on it, the jumping between subpages/menus gives me much too little real overview. I get tired from jumping after a short while, constantly losing overview over the basic sound structure and the powerful, but often complicated modulation matrix (AMS).
Again it's just the opposite with the KK: this thing is one big invitation to use the big knobs and do your own sounds, or tweak the presets. It is as intuitive and direct as a Moog Model D, just polyphonic and with more sound shaping options, including very simple and direct effect shaping and use. You always have the feeling to have full control over every aspect of the sound. You can really 'play synth' live with it and not just 'use synth sounds'. I am really glad since I have the KK on top of the Kronos.

So if the main point of this thread is that a Kronos is already delivering what a KK offers I can only laugh and say:
Are you kidding???

Synthee · Post by **Synthee** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:57 am

jimknopf, interesting to read your opinions.
But tube overdrive on classic analouge synthsounds??
That sound to me like drinking 12 year old single malt whiskey with coca cola.

zzz · Post by **zzz** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:57 am

I think Jim has hit on the main difference, here. While the Kronos has so many possibilities, there's only so much you can tweak at one time using the knobs on the K and one of the many, many pages of the editor. Let's face it, the K isn't a performance on the fly machine, unless you've previously set it up. King Korg is an invitation to fiddle while you're playing. It's about time Korg bit the bullet, scrapped the godawful editor, and commisioned seperate ones (scalable, please, it's the twenty first century!) for both the PC/Mac and iPad, with a much bigger view of more options to edit, and, gosh, user friendly.
On a seperate note, the new prophet 12 looks very playable, too; just out of my budget!

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:59 am

jimknopf wrote:All in AL1 is rather a powerful modern synth of it's own character, than something suited to deliver classical analog sounds. If you take it as that, it is great - if you try to get classical synth sounds from it, you can forget most of that goal from my view.

i agree with you,

I compare the AL1 more to an access virus then a moog for instance. I totally agree that you can create all those modern sounds in the AL-1, i have programmed such a dance library for the AL-1 and i find the sounds better sounding and more powerful than on my virus ti (i never expected this to happen).

Classical analog patches always sounds to harsh in my opinion on the al-1, i think the filter is the cause of this, so i'm really curious if we see an al-1 library some day from someone that was able to create those smooth leads we know.

levioter · Post by **levioter** » Mon May 06, 2013 12:54 pm

Jimknopf thanks for your opinion which is of a great value as a real owner of both machines.
I can understand what you are talking about when you are talking about the complexity in programming AL-1.
One can search for many days to be close to a famous analog sound.

Interresting to see how this thread may evolve. May be some top AL-1 programmers will express more opinions.

Cheers

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:09 pm

Synthee wrote:jimknopf, interesting to read your opinions.
But tube overdrive on classic analouge synthsounds??
That sound to me like drinking 12 year old single malt whiskey with coca cola.

Classical synth sounds were often played using tube amps to get anything from warm tube saturation, up to slight overdrive for lead sounds.

Jan Hammer even played Moogs and Oberheim modules through Marshall stacks(!) to get his preferred lead sounds.

Coca Cola into 12 year old singhle malt whisky rather comes into my mind, when you play AL-1 leads with Kronos onboard overdrive, trying to get those classical leads: that really can spoil the pleasure.

@Qui: completely agree with you about the AL-1 generally sounding too harsh for classical analog sounds, while being a great synth of its own kind for modern electronic and dance sounds.

MortenJ · Post by **MortenJ** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:45 pm

MarPabl wrote:I can only think about the modeling filters as well as the CV/Gate interface

and Smallstone phaser model,flanger,Chorus effects that are from SV-1 and also in EP-1 in Kronos

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:53 pm

While there are differences in sound.

The primary reason for me to have the KingKorg in conjunction with the Kronos is performance features and control.

It's really cool to have the Kronos running full bore with a karmafied Combi. Then playing Leadlines on the KingKorg and being able to twist knobs during the performance.

JimH · Post by **JimH** » Mon May 06, 2013 5:20 pm

So is there any hardware controller that has all the knobs you might expect from an analog-type synth? Yes, the Kronos has some knobs and sliders. And I know there are MIDI keyboards with a few knobs you can assign to functions of a synth like the AL-1. But I mean a controller made specifically for controlling synths with all the knobs you would typically use on something like a Prophet or Moog, and in the right places, so that it feel like you have the basics within reach. That might be a useful product. Though it might sort of favor subtractive synths I guess.

zzz · Post by **zzz** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:48 pm

Perhaps a breakout box that looked like the front of a radias rack times two or three?

zzz · Post by **zzz** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:50 pm

A thought just struck. If the filters are modelled, what's to say they can't be ported over to the Kronos in a future update? It, too, is software.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:57 pm

That's what we're all hoping for.
Hoping for, not counting on