KORG HARDWARE SYNTHS WITH DAW EDITOR DISCUSSION

[nik1]

Hi there,

I've asked some dumb questions on this forum in the past and had some kind people give me some straight answers .

For months I have struggled to integrate my M50 into my DAW. I was able to get some good sounds into it (DAW) in the past but I avoided getting under the hood and failed to maximize the synth's potential but I believe I've made a bit of headway with the thing recently. I'm writing this report / synopsis as much for anyone else's benefit as for my own because I find the process so involved and confusing that I constantly forget critical pieces of information especially when I've got ideas on the go; I will without doubt revert back to this piece for my own reference.

I'm of the belief that the M50, M4, Oasys and Krome all operate on a fairly similar level when being used in conjunction with DAWs though of-course the latter mentioned have a wider variety of applications. And I have combed the internet trying to get information on how to fully utilize the software editor's functionality and periodically I do come across other people with similar queries.

I sense that most Korg synth users use their gear primarily as stand alone devices but I'm hoping others may wish to share their knowledge on this thread with regards to integrating Korg synths into DAWs; and just maybe some of the things that I have painstakingly discovered may be of some use to someone out there at some point in time.

I use the DAW: Reaper, which isn't famous for its midi functionality but you should be able to fill in the pieces when using your own chosen workstation. The one difference between Reaper and most DAWs is that Reaper doesn't specify a track type when one is added to a project - there are no mono / stereo / midi tracks per se; rather its type is decided after the fact.


My procedure:

1.
load an instance of the Korg software editor into the DAW. Ensure to record disable this track, (the host VST track) so as to not accidentally record onto it. I find it is best used purely as a host.


2.

Build / Route 16 midi tracks from the VST track. I then erase midi track 1 and all tracks after 10 leaving midi tracks 2-10, (9 in total.) Midi track 10 is by default is the drum track where all of that information is stored / transmitted.

That's enough tracks for me at this stage though it may change in the future. I don't use channel 1 because the M50 by default in combi mode wants to transmit globally on this channel which defeats the purpose of the nature of the instrument, I think it's better to keep the elements separated - more hassle in the short term but worth it in the long run.

3.

Manually build 9 audio tracks to marry with the midi tracks that were just made forming part of the VST host's family. In some of my other software devices the option is given to build 32 stereo tracks to compliment the existing midi tracks however this option is not available in Reaper with the M50, (or at least it fails with my set up.) I then create one godfather track to store all of the audio tracks / the midi tracks and the VST host so it can be shrunk way down when the project starts to get real heavy.

4.

(Reaper specific point.) Ensure master / parent send on VST Host track is NOT checked.

5.) Find a patch in combi mode on the synth and put the synth into LOCAL ON and MIDI AUTO CLOCK. Manually match the tempo on the synth with the project tempo on the DAW and don't press any of the record or monitoring buttons. At this stage it's just jamming and perhaps replacing patches or modifying the existing ones.

6.

Tweak the sound to suit and then save the combination then copy it to sequence mode, its a pain going back and forth between the two - I try and get the sound in the ballpark before moving it to sequencer mode.

7.

In sequencer mode inspect which tracks are using the arpeggio or drum functions - mute all others. In the track parameter window turn these to both, (ARP and DRUM tracks) and all other tracks that do not utilize this function turn to off. (Also turn all the track status buttons to play, not record.)

8.

In DAW turn record on channel 10, (the drum track) but turn monitor off, ( I don't know why it just makes it go silly.)

9.

Insert a note on note in the VST host track, (there is a way to do this somehow with SYS Ex but I haven't figured it out .) This acts as the trigger to wake up the ARP / DRUM. Press record and the midi data will spill out into channel 10 in the DAW. Often it is messy so it makes sense to then record the output of each of the drum hits and insert them into a drum editor / vst and neaten them up and modify pitches add sounds etc.

10.

Next record the tracks that require arpeggio. With the arpegiator sometimes the note doesn't catch properly and takes a few cycles to get itself together. Usually ensuring latch is enabled and a bit of fiddling around with the record on off buttons wakes it up. When it does it's always out, (the drum track too, like I said a direct SYS EX command would probably correct this.)

After they are captured engage record disable on the midi tracks so as to not accidentally record over them. They need to be turned on to play in time when you're overdubbing new instruments. So now the sounds of the arpegiator and drum tracks are captured as midi footprints within the DAW; when they play back they're not using the DRUM / ARP engine they are just playing the midi notes that the DRUM / ARP engine spat out - so at this point turn the ARP and DRUM off.

11.

At this point when it is time to record the tracks that do not require the arpeggio or drum machine I turn local control OFF and sync the midi clock to the HOST / EXTERNAL USB / DAW clock. I then move to combi mode where I separate the non-arpegiated / drum tracks to different midi channels. This can be a little confusing because the slots that the instruments hold in the synth will probably not match the midi channels that they will utilize. (I have not found a way to shift different tambres / tracks to different slots on either the M50 or the software editor.)

12.

When overdubbing the new sounds in combi mode sometimes the existing ARP tracks do not play when new tracks are record enabled and sometimes the new tracks play the instruments playing the ARP patterns, I'm sure there is some logic to it but I haven't yet figured it out.

recording the tracks that do not require the ARP / DRUM engine is much more straight forward.

13. When the physical synth and the DAW start integrating with one and other sometimes I find patches get lost in the unit itself so to counteract this I receive the combi via the utility switch on on the M50 editor; that way the elements are preserved in the DAW itself and there seems to be less likelihood of things getting scrambled.

As you can see this is a labor intensive process but I'm hoping in time that it will become less stressful. Also I find that external synths alleviate a lot of pressure from a computer's capacity to process properly and I find I'm more creative with a box in front of me.

If anyone wants to throw something in the mix I'm all ears.

Cheers.

[Ajbbklyn]

Your application of the M50 to DAW is much more involved than mine. I'm at work right now. When I get the opportunity I will describe how I use the M50 with Ableton Live.

[Pincho Paxton]

When I get the opportunity I will describe how I use the M50 with Ableton Live.

Hope you don't forget. I am about to attempt a song with the M50, and Abbleton Live.

[Ajbbklyn]

Typically, I incorporate the M50 output as part of a larger mix which can include audio tracks of mic'd instruments, vocals and MIDI tracks containing Live's native instruments and other VSTi's.

With respect to the M50 in Live: I create a MIDI track in Live and put an instance of the M50 Editor VST on it. At the same time I also create two audio tracks (one for "L" the other for "R" audio signals) and feed the M50 audio output thereto. I don't record-enable the audio tracks at this time. They're just for listening reference.

I'll record the MIDI for a single mix element coming from the M50 using a click track as a guide. Then use Live's MIDI editing capability to hone the MIDI information, while having the audio output as a reference. When I'm satisfied that the track is finished, I arm the audio tracks and record the two tracks of audio from the M50 into Live.

Rinse and repeat for each mix element. Remember - you can only have a single instance of the Editor VST running at one time. After I've committed the audio to track for a mix element, I use Live's "Save As" function to save the session containing the MIDI track. Then delete the MIDI track before going on to work on the next mix element. I go through the process with this next mix element. I'll save that as a new session in order to preserve the MIDI information.

The session files by themselves are not very large. All of the sessions are part of the same project. So, if I need to revisit the MIDI info, the information will have been saved in an earlier session.

I don't customarily build MIDI files with multiple channels of information. I tend to use Live in a more old-fashioned way, primarily using Arrangement View in much the same way I would have used tape years ago.

Here's a link to a page with some of my recordings, grouped in chronological order. The recordings from 2010-2013 incorporate the M50 to varying degrees. My cover of "Pretty Ballerina" is actually an .SNG file which can be played back on the keyboard with me simply adding the live piano part: Recordings

[Ovidius]

Hi Nik1,
thank you for the suggestions. I am looking onto same workflow as you. Using DAW on computer for MIDI events and editing. After MIDI fits, then recording and effecting.

I had problem with latency of MIDI notes in Reaper. It has been surprisingly resolved by using ASIO driver and setting small buffer size.

(To avoid misunderstanding, I was sending MIDI notes from M50 to computer and sending them back to M50. The MIDI notes had latency when coming through computer. Headphones were plugged to M50. Not sure why Reaper behaved like this because the M50 was connected as different device than ASIO soundcard)


Did you manage to use Korg transport controls to control Reaper? I was able to do it with Start/stop button but nothing else.

[Ovidius]

One more question, actually. I have almost working 16 track setup with Reaper and M50 Editor (can provide Reaper file if you want).

MIDI tracks record from M50 Editor and they are configured to send messages back to it.

However the sending to M50 editor somehow does not work. Playing note on MIDI track does not send it to M50 Editor. The editor does not show pressed note and does not send it to M50. Clicking a key in M50 editor sends the note to M50. Have you experienced this problem, too?

I was able to do working setup some time ago, but did not save the project

[lutefish]

Nik - many thanks for this. I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get Logic to receive drum track and arpeggiato data. I'm still struggling with the second, actually, but your write-up here and on the Reaper forums was enormously helpful - I'm going to post a similar summary to the Krome forum, but point people here, as well. Thanks!

[Ovidius]

Guys, if anyone of you has multiple track setup where works sending data to M50 Editor Plug-In, could you please send me your project?

[Ajbbklyn]

The M50 editor is not designed to receive MIDI from other tracks. It is designed as a plug-in to record MIDI from the M50 itself. Once the information has been recorded, the editor can play back to the M50, triggering the board's sound module. The proper workflow is to send the board's audio back to the DAW (in your case, Reaper).

Refer to page 8 of the M50 Editor/Plug-in Editor Manual

[Ovidius]

Oh crab, I made it working finally. With trial and error...

The track with M50 Editor Plug-In must be before all other tracks that have routing to it. I have no idea why, but it works!

[Ovidius]

I have written a blog post describing 16 track setup with M50 Editor Plug-In.

http://aries-yes.blogspot.cz/2013/11/ko ... setup.html

I hope, it will be useful.