Korg Forums

Considering these:

EMC's User Bank Editor €50 (which I think is a very poor thing for that price)

Wave Xtractor £15 (seems very reasonable and affordable)

If there was a Program that could really Edit Sets etc...

How much would you actually pay for it?

What would this program do that you can't already do on the Pa3X ?

Regards
Sharp.

What would this program do that you can't already do on the Pa3X ?

Regards
Sharp.

Well the idea is to do things on a PC based editor, rather than the keyboard?
As int NOT create styles/sounds from scratch etc.. but more liked an EDITOR of SETS that everyone keeps on wanting / talking all these years..?

Sharp wrote:What would this program do that you can't already do on the Pa3X ?

Regards
Sharp.

Are you serious?

Assyrianpianist wrote:

Sharp wrote:What would this program do that you can't already do on the Pa3X ?

Regards
Sharp.

Are you serious?

Looking for a PC program to do what the Pa3X already does easily is a waste of time to me.

If you want an editor, ask for something worth while.

Something that manages samples, gives you better control over the sound editing process and layer management, and something that greatly improves style creation.

Don't ask for a program that does simple things the Pa3X already does very well.

It's the same over in the KRONOS section of the forum. People wanted an editor and when they got one, it ended up being nothing more than a tool that does what the KRONOS already does. It simply replicated the KRONOS GUI on a computer giving not one single advantage over using the KRONOS itself.

So yes, I am serious.

I want a real editor, not a "program for dummy's" if you get my meaning. I'm not implying people are dummy's. I'm refering to those books that are so simple that they are pointless.

Regards
Sharp

Sharp wrote:

Assyrianpianist wrote:

Sharp wrote:What would this program do that you can't already do on the Pa3X ?

Regards
Sharp.

Are you serious?

Looking for a PC program to do what the Pa3X already does easily is a waste of time to me.

If you want an editor, ask for something worth while.

Something that manages samples, gives you better control over the sound editing process and layer management, and something that greatly improves style creation.

Don't ask for a program that does simple things the Pa3X already does very well.

It's the same over in the KRONOS section of the forum. People wanted an editor and when they got one, it ended up being nothing more than a tool that does what the KRONOS already does. It simply replicated the KRONOS GUI on a computer giving not one single advantage over using the KRONOS itself.

So yes, I am serious.

I want a real editor, not a "program for dummy's" if you get my meaning. I'm not implying people are dummy's. I'm refering to those books that are so simple that they are pointless.

Regards
Sharp

Yes and NO.

Just because a device is able to handle a certain task that doesn't mean a computer based software to cover that particular functionality isn't needed. It all depends on how well that device is actually able to handle that task.

Example: you can use these keyboards to merge SETs. The way it works though, you really have to spend hours to transfer a few styles from SET A to SET B (assuming they use user sample..et)...It's so time consuming and retarded that makes you feel you live in 1950s. A real editor would let you see inside your SETs and transfer sounds and styles from one to another without spending the whole week trying to use a pen and paper to write a foreign sound/styles properties.

It's not about what PA3x or any other keyboard can do. It's about how it can do it.
If that were the case, there shouldn't be a need for a DAW, because you can use a keyboard to sequence songs.

Just because a device is able to handle a certain task that doesn't mean a computer based software to cover that particular functionality isn't needed. It all depends on how well that device is actually able to handle that task.

True, but this thread seems to be limited to functions that relate to the management of a SET, and in my opinion the Pa3X already does "almost" all of this very well.

Example: you can use these keyboards to merge SETs. The way it works though, you really have to spend hours to transfer a few styles from SET A to SET B (assuming they use user sample..et)...It's so time consuming and retarded that makes you feel you live in 1950s. A real editor would let you see inside your SETs and transfer sounds and styles from one to another without spending the whole week trying to use a pen and paper to write a foreign sound/styles properties.

Well your kind of hitting on two separate things there so I will separate them in my reply.

Taking a selection of styles from one set and populating them into another set is as simple as it can get on the Pa3X already. It takes only a quick moment. Seconds per style. You load the SET you want to popular with new styles, and you use the OPEN option to select the styles you want to load into that set. Quick, and simple.

If your style uses factory sounds, no further work is requires.

If your working with user sounds and even sample based ones, loading is the same process as above. The Pa3X will auto load the necessary PCM data.

So about the only time some manual editing comes in is when you are working with User Sounds in a Style. You will have to assign the new location of those sounds to the style.

It's not about what PA3x or any other keyboard can do. It's about how it can do it.
If that were the case, there shouldn't be a need for a DAW, because you can use a keyboard to sequence songs.

I think I'm missing your point on that one. In my reply I've listed out sound design, style creation and sample management as areas that could be greatly improved by an editor for a DAW. It's about the right tool for the job in this case. If your going to ask for an Editor, ask for one that's actually useful and a benefit to everyone.

Don't ask for one that simply does the functions that the PA3X already does extremely well.

Regards
Sharp.

It takes only a quick moment. Seconds per style.

That could not be further from the truth. That just tells me you personally don't deal with merging SETs on regular basis or you just don't deal with styles that use whole bunch non-factory sounds. Why do you think every other thread in i3/PA800/PA3x... forums is about a computer based Editor? Of course, people who have just one SET, or use factory sounds/styles don't have to worry about this, but others have to suffer. Just ask anybody on this forum who deals with these stuff. Just go to the oriental korg forum (which is in English by the way) and you'll see what i'm talking about. It's so bad that some people actually have an online business offering services for Merging SETs. A computer based editor can easily solve this nightmare. I'm talking about thousands and thousands of oriental and Balkan users in particular. That could also cover anybody else who's not using factory sounds/styles all that much.

Yes, the PA3x can do it, but it's a total nightmare.

Assyrianpianist wrote:

It takes only a quick moment. Seconds per style.

That could not be further from the truth. That just tells me you personally don't deal with merging SETs on regular basis or you just don't deal with styles that use whole bunch non-factory sounds. Why do you think every other thread in i3/PA800/PA3x... forums is about a computer based Editor? Of course, people who have just one SET, or use factory sounds/styles don't have to worry about this, but others have to suffer. Just ask anybody on this forum who deals with these stuff. Just go to the oriental korg forum (which is in English by the way) and you'll see what i'm talking about. It's so bad that some people actually have an online business offering services for Merging SETs. A computer based editor can easily solve this nightmare. I'm talking about thousands and thousands of oriental and Balkan users in particular. That could also cover anybody else who's not using factory sounds/styles all that much.

Yes, the PA3x can do it, but it's a total nightmare.

Very well said Sam. People who play only Western music and use factory sounds and drums kits would have no idea how involved it can get.

Amoo Farrokh
Canada

Can't vote in this poll - not enough options and specifications
It's all a bit vague..
If someone could clearly (for once) define such a PC/Mac editor for PA3X, then it could be sensibly considered and possibly built by someone.

I respect that we all have different needs from different genres and styles of music but there just seems to be a lot of "wish-list" items regarding editors.
I think someone should take the time to collate the requirements and produce a specification.

I do all my SET editing and most of my sequencing on PA3X but might consider an external editor if its features suited me.

Pete

That could not be further from the truth. That just tells me you personally don't deal with merging SETs on regular basis or you just don't deal with styles that use whole bunch non-factory sounds.

Well, your reply just tells me that you didn't bother reading my original post to you.

Read what I said. I make clear reference to your comments and replying as a two part reply. I actually state this in my post.

It is a 100% provable fact that if you load a set file to memory and you want to import data from another set, it's as simple as using the Open option to look inside the second SET file and to load the individual styles you want to import one by one.

As I said, this takes seconds. This is a 100% provable fact you cannot deny.

In the second part of my reply, I reference the loading of custom sounds and one's that use PCM data. This is also a process that is performed exactly as above.

However, if the styles that were loaded used these custom sounds, they would have to be mapped to the style as they would be in a new location. I very clearly said all this in my last reply to you.

Why do you think every other thread in i3/PA800/PA3x... forums is about a computer based Editor? Of course, people who have just one SET, or use factory sounds/styles don't have to worry about this, but others have to suffer. Just ask anybody on this forum who deals with these stuff

Well, I've been running this site for over 10+ Years and the same questions have always come up. The conclusion is always the same. When a question comes up, you answer it and you help someone. Others that read the thread also learn from it.

A little time goes by and the same question comes up again by someone new. You answer them too or someone who learned from your first post does, and.... well.... we all go around in a loop every year as the same questions keep coming up because most don't bother to read the manual.

We have even had some threads on this forum that quoted the most annoying questions that keep coming up all the time. I believe the most common one has to do with the contrast knob on the back of certain keyboards.

I'm talking about thousands and thousands of oriental and Balkan users in particular. That could also cover anybody else who's not using factory sounds/styles all that much.

Well, we are in the Pa3X section of the forum talking about this. So my comments are limited to the Pa3X. I am aware of the fact that older keyboard work differently when you load PCM data.

Yes, the PA3x can do it, but it's a total nightmare.

What exactly are you referring to that is a nightmare.

The way I see this, your trying to make a big issue out of everything and it's actually only a single function your having difficult with. Which is the fact that when you load custom sounds that were used in a Style, you have to assign them again to the style they were used in as their probably in a new memory location.

This is not rocket science. It also takes only moments.

Regards
Sharp.

Sharp;
You seem to understand the problem, but I think you are Underestimating the struggle users face when having to merge sets.

Yes, you can do it all on the PA3X and import etc.. But have you tried doing it in practice, when you have dozens of Styles, Perfs, Sounds to deal with? You have to ReAssign the Sounds etc.. one by one.
Just imagine 10 Styles min x4 Vars Each.. etc.. Pers sounds... etc... How long would it take you to do this.. ? is the question and problem here...

Stratario wrote:

Assyrianpianist wrote:

It takes only a quick moment. Seconds per style.

That could not be further from the truth. That just tells me you personally don't deal with merging SETs on regular basis or you just don't deal with styles that use whole bunch non-factory sounds. Why do you think every other thread in i3/PA800/PA3x... forums is about a computer based Editor? Of course, people who have just one SET, or use factory sounds/styles don't have to worry about this, but others have to suffer. Just ask anybody on this forum who deals with these stuff. Just go to the oriental korg forum (which is in English by the way) and you'll see what i'm talking about. It's so bad that some people actually have an online business offering services for Merging SETs. A computer based editor can easily solve this nightmare. I'm talking about thousands and thousands of oriental and Balkan users in particular. That could also cover anybody else who's not using factory sounds/styles all that much.

Yes, the PA3x can do it, but it's a total nightmare.

Very well said Sam. People who play only Western music and use factory sounds and drums kits would have no idea how involved it can get.

Amoo Farrokh
Canada

That's right. They're totally clueless about this huge problem. It's an extremely time consuming process. I know for fact a lot of people spend less time playing and more time loading and unloading SETs to cherry pick the styles they need. Since most people don't know how to create styles, they depend on free SETs that fly around the internet. I've seen some of those. I was shocked to see a single style could be assigned to 4 to 7 different drum kits , one per style element! On top of that Acc tracks were also assigned to user sounds and of course those would also change from Var to Var....I checked to see if I could reassign all drum tracks to one drum kit...but because these drum kits are borrowed from random places, each has its own internal non-standard mapping. One has C1 for the kick, but another has it mapped to A#5. ... Average users would have no idea how to fix or edit any of this, so naturally the next practical option for them would be to bring the style to their main SET as it is. It'll take a lot of time to take notes of all the style properties. Then you load the main SET again, and spend even more time trying to recreate that style .... . That's just one small example of what oriental users deal with on regular basis.
There's a lot more to it... .

Sharp wrote: The way I see this, your trying to make a big issue out of everything and it's actually only a single function your having difficult with. Which is the fact that when you load custom sounds that were used in a Style, you have to assign them again to the style they were used in as their probably in a new memory location.

This is not rocket science. It also takes only moments.

Regards
Sharp.

Fair enough! Let's just assume I have no idea what I'm talking about and i'm just making a big deal for no reason at all.

I have a proposition for you. I'll send you two SETs (the kind that oriental/Balkan users use). Then, I'll have you to transfer 5 styles from SET B to SET A .

Use a stopwatch and tell me how long it took you to do a full transfer (Styles, related user sounds/drum kits, performances). Also make sure to document the time you have to wait for SETs to be loaded.

Actually, I would love for you to document the whole process on a video Camera. Like you said it's not rocket science and it should only take few moments for each style.

Hi Sam

I AM NOT ARGUING - sincerely interested...
I have merged several of my SETs over the years since PA1 days.
As Sharp says, importing STYLEs/Sounds/Performances from other SETs is very easy and straight forward on the PA3X.
The issue usually faced is "location management" and I always carefully plan how my styles/sounds/performances are organised so I have not encountered any SET merging issues.
As I said above, I am sincerely interested as I can't figure how an editor would make things any quicker/easier (other than perhaps the convenience of a bigger screen to work on).
Location management and related planning would be exactly the same in an editor as on the PA3X as I see it.

What am I missing????

Sam, just curious...

Cheers

Pete