Karma hands free is this possible with freeform songs.

[shaneblyth]

I was walking about thinking this morning re a need I have and wondering if this is possible to achieve..
I don't want to use song mode unless there is a way to jump about in loops of songs so I thought maybe KARMA is the way to do this.
I want to use KARMA drums which is something I know works judging by some combi's though I am not too sure how to easily program a drum track in KARMA , maybe copy an existing drum pattern? Haven't looked at that yet.
But I want to play freeform in a song. The ability to sit on a verse or jump to a bridge and jump back rather than the traditional fixed Intro, v1 v2 ch v1 v1 ch ending rigid structure.
I'd be playing a bass split, singing and a keys part up higher so my hands would be very busy so how to reach up and hit a different KARMA drum button. I could imagine pretty near impossible to get the timing of hitting the button right.
So could we allocate those KARMA scene buttons to some sort of midi footswitch that allowed me to at least roll forward and back through scenes or a footswitch button for each KARMA button.
I know it's asking a lot, Maybe I'm missing something and there is an easier way of achieving this in song mode but I'm not familiar with the sequencer yet.
SO after all that rambling thoughts what do people think. Does anyone do the one man band gig on occasions AND needs to work a song by going back to another part and sitting on it cause its going off.
Or maybe I need to do this with an outboard computer using the Kronos drums.
I dont wan to head off in one direction or another spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel and find it isn't doing to work or there is a better way

Cheers

[TheWolf]

Why do people buy a workstation like the Kronos if, what they really want, is an arranger keyboard like the Pa3X?


OK, I have to admit that this was neither a constructive nor a too serious comment. But from the questions raised in this forum, I am sometimes really wondering why people here have bought a Kronos...

But maybe this article here about a similar task on the M3 helps to get you an idea?

[X-Trade]

Well, I would actually like to achieve similar things. I bought the Kronos because I'm an avid synth programmer, I like working with KARMA, and don't see why it should not be possible to arrange live from a workstation. You can do it in ableton which is very technical and popular for original music, so why not the Kronos.

In fact, it seems the OP already has the gist of it. You can use KARMA to set up various scenes involving your drum GE. With KARMA especially without the software though you give up the detailed control over exactly what is played. More like making suggestions to a real drummer ('make it a bit more complex', 'lets have more triplets in that!', etc.)

So the GE itself is kind of like your drummer, which has a fixed set of patterns. And then you tailor it to your needs using the RTP controls available from the control surface.

From there it should be possible to assign a pad controller or footswitch to each scene. Scene changes can also be set to a quantize window which will help with the timing question too.

It's much faster way to work than the RPPR option. But RPPR would give you more direct control over the exact notes and phrases involved. The downside being that on some models you are giving up a lot of keyboard space to RPPR features. I also found it wasn't possible to easily set up a scene change - you either need to hold the button down for the duration, or press the button of the current scene first to 'disarm' it just before you hit the button for the next scene.

I haven't actually tried the RPPR method on the Kronos though. Last I tried it was on the Karma MW and ended up using Ableton instead...

[shaneblyth]

Why do people buy a workstation like the Kronos if, what they really want, is an arranger keyboard like the Pa3X?


OK, I have to admit that this was neither a constructive nor a too serious comment. But from the questions raised in this forum, I am sometimes really wondering why people here have bought a Kronos...

But maybe this article here about a similar task on the M3 helps to get you an idea?

Who says I want an arranger keyboard I've looked at them have band in a box but frankly I find them a joke.
I bought the Kronos as a great sounding very deep instrument.
I have a need on rare occasions when the drummer is not about to put some drum tracks behind and have some flexibility in modifying the order of the verse chorus structure. Not a lot but just on the odd occasion when a song is working well. Thats it. I have looked at arranger keyboards and software and frankly have never been impressed especially at the price of some of it.

[ed_f]

I was walking about thinking this morning re a need I have and wondering if this is possible to achieve..
I don't want to use song mode unless there is a way to jump about in loops of songs so I thought maybe KARMA is the way to do this.
I want to use KARMA drums which is something I know works judging by some combi's though I am not too sure how to easily program a drum track in KARMA , maybe copy an existing drum pattern? Haven't looked at that yet.
But I want to play freeform in a song. The ability to sit on a verse or jump to a bridge and jump back rather than the traditional fixed Intro, v1 v2 ch v1 v1 ch ending rigid structure.
I'd be playing a bass split, singing and a keys part up higher so my hands would be very busy so how to reach up and hit a different KARMA drum button. I could imagine pretty near impossible to get the timing of hitting the button right.
So could we allocate those KARMA scene buttons to some sort of midi footswitch that allowed me to at least roll forward and back through scenes or a footswitch button for each KARMA button.
I know it's asking a lot, Maybe I'm missing something and there is an easier way of achieving this in song mode but I'm not familiar with the sequencer yet.
SO after all that rambling thoughts what do people think. Does anyone do the one man band gig on occasions AND needs to work a song by going back to another part and sitting on it cause its going off.
Or maybe I need to do this with an outboard computer using the Kronos drums.
I dont wan to head off in one direction or another spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel and find it isn't doing to work or there is a better way

Cheers

Drum GEs are very different than drum tracks. If you want to create your own, first thing you need is the KARMA Kronos software, which is awesome, but add a whole different level of what is required.
You have 4 modules in KARMA and 8 scenes that can "adjust" those. Can you get all the variations you want in that? Maybe.

You can totally change scenes using a footswitch, I have one that I turn Karma on or off and can tap to jump to any of the 8 scenes.

In song mode you can use RPPR - look for threads here and you will see, that indeed what you are asking for comes closer to an arranger keyboard and RPPR is probably your best bet. Assign all the the drum patterns (you can use existing patterns) to an RPPR key and trigger them with the keyboard or some other midi device.

All in all I think it depends on a lot of factors that aren't known from your post.

[shaneblyth]

I was walking about thinking this morning re a need I have and wondering if this is possible to achieve..
I don't want to use song mode unless there is a way to jump about in loops of songs so I thought maybe KARMA is the way to do this.
I want to use KARMA drums which is something I know works judging by some combi's though I am not too sure how to easily program a drum track in KARMA , maybe copy an existing drum pattern? Haven't looked at that yet.
But I want to play freeform in a song. The ability to sit on a verse or jump to a bridge and jump back rather than the traditional fixed Intro, v1 v2 ch v1 v1 ch ending rigid structure.
I'd be playing a bass split, singing and a keys part up higher so my hands would be very busy so how to reach up and hit a different KARMA drum button. I could imagine pretty near impossible to get the timing of hitting the button right.
So could we allocate those KARMA scene buttons to some sort of midi footswitch that allowed me to at least roll forward and back through scenes or a footswitch button for each KARMA button.
I know it's asking a lot, Maybe I'm missing something and there is an easier way of achieving this in song mode but I'm not familiar with the sequencer yet.
SO after all that rambling thoughts what do people think. Does anyone do the one man band gig on occasions AND needs to work a song by going back to another part and sitting on it cause its going off.
Or maybe I need to do this with an outboard computer using the Kronos drums.
I dont wan to head off in one direction or another spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel and find it isn't doing to work or there is a better way

Cheers

Drum GEs are very different than drum tracks. If you want to create your own, first thing you need is the KARMA Kronos software, which is awesome, but add a whole different level of what is required.
You have 4 modules in KARMA and 8 scenes that can "adjust" those. Can you get all the variations you want in that? Maybe.

You can totally change scenes using a footswitch, I have one that I turn Karma on or off and can tap to jump to any of the 8 scenes.

In song mode you can use RPPR - look for threads here and you will see, that indeed what you are asking for comes closer to an arranger keyboard and RPPR is probably your best bet. Assign all the the drum patterns (you can use existing patterns) to an RPPR key and trigger them with the keyboard or some other midi device.

All in all I think it depends on a lot of factors that aren't known from your post.

thanks im not familiar with what you mean by "RPPR" in song mode
so what sort of factors would make it clearer?
I really just want the ability to play over the top of a drum track that I can have a intro chorus verse drum pattern and flick between them as required I will provide the rest of the playing live and so may a few other guys in a band. It's just the drum tracks and ability to choose 1 of 3 or 4 patterns at most in a song on the fly.

[StephenKay]

A single KARMA Drum GE has 8 scenes. You could program 8 drum variations in different scenes, and change between them any time you like.

If all you wanted to do was drums and no other parts, then in a combi, you could set up 4 different drum GEs, playing completely different drum beats, and each of them could have 8 scene variations, and you could control which of the drum GEs was on in a particular scene with the Master Layer Scene settings, and even combine more than one Drum GE in specific scenes.

The thing is, to create your own drum beats and have them be a GE and able to be controlled in this manner, you would need the KARMA Kronos software, which allows GEs to be created, edited and uploaded to the Kronos. There's no way to do it internally in the Kronos if you want custom beats. Of course, you can use any of the hundreds of drum GEs in the Kronos already, and modify them to do different things within the scenes.

[shaneblyth]

A single KARMA Drum GE has 8 scenes. You could program 8 drum variations in different scenes, and change between them any time you like.

If all you wanted to do was drums and no other parts, then in a combi, you could set up 4 different drum GEs, playing completely different drum beats, and each of them could have 8 scene variations, and you could control which of the drum GEs was on in a particular scene with the Master Layer Scene settings, and even combine more than one Drum GE in specific scenes.

The thing is, to create your own drum beats and have them be a GE and able to be controlled in this manner, you would need the KARMA Kronos software, which allows GEs to be created, edited and uploaded to the Kronos. There's no way to do it internally in the Kronos if you want custom beats. Of course, you can use any of the hundreds of drum GEs in the Kronos already, and modify them to do different things within the scenes.

Thanks I better start looking at this and trying a few things out is there any tutorials tht might be appropriate for my needs? I prefer videos if poss.
cheers

[Bertotti]

Qui has some great tutorials and he does cover a bit of Karma.

Also StephenKay have a great sale on the karma software for Kronos. I am picking it up for sure before the sale is over! Thanks again Stephen for the opportunity to get this great software!

[shaneblyth]

Qui has some great tutorials and he does cover a bit of Karma.

Also StephenKay have a great sale on the karma software for Kronos. I am picking it up for sure before the sale is over! Thanks again Stephen for the opportunity to get this great software!

cheers
appreciate the helpful pointers everyone