Using Kronos effects on real Guitar on a live gig?

JohnDonovan · Post by **JohnDonovan** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:21 pm

So I've got some gigs coming up where I'll mainly be playing keys, but for a short set in the middle some basic rhythm guitar for about 5 numbers.

So I've been experimenting with the idea of plugging my guitar straight into the Kronos, applying amp sim effects etc within a Combi and using that rather a separate guitar effects unit.

Just wondering if anyone has done anything similar to this? I've setup a combi with a chain of amp-sim, chorus, way, plate reverb (not all effects on at once!), but as soon as I turn on the guitar amp model I'm getting a lot of hiss/noise. I've tried EQ'ing it out but I then lose a lot of the treble from the guitar in the process. Any ideas?!

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:51 pm

Are you using a DI box?

Also what sort of pickups, single coil?

JohnDonovan · Post by **JohnDonovan** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:09 pm

BobTheDog wrote:Are you using a DI box?

Also what sort of pickups, single coil?

Only just tried it at home for the first time today, so haven't setup a DI box. I've tried both single coil & humbucker, but the thing is if I just play the guitar through the Kronos clean with all the effects turned off there's minimal noise if any. It's only when I turn the amp model on that the noise appears.

LZ · Post by LZ » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:50 am

I don't think you'll find the amp sim adequate. Maybe if you ran it through a Decent OD pedal and just used the Kronos for other effects - comp/EQ/chor/delay/reverb.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:44 am

JohnDonovan wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:Are you using a DI box?

Also what sort of pickups, single coil?
Only just tried it at home for the first time today, so haven't setup a DI box. I've tried both single coil & humbucker, but the thing is if I just play the guitar through the Kronos clean with all the effects turned off there's minimal noise if any. It's only when I turn the amp model on that the noise appears.

Probably worth trying a DI box. I will have a play with mine today to see if I get the same issue on mine.

LZs idea of using a decent OD pedal, or better still an amp pedal is a good idea though. The Korg amp sims are not that great!

JohnDonovan · Post by **JohnDonovan** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:13 am

Right - will setup a separate guitar rig. Was perhaps being slightly too optimistic in trying to streamline the rig for these gigs. I quite liked the idea of the Kronos setlist taking care of everything for the gig.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:37 am

I Just gave it a go, awful hiss with most of the amp sims!

Even without anything plugged into the Kronos input you get the hiss, it is dependent on the gain knob position.

Not only that the amp sims sound pretty bad with a guitar!

Purusha · Post by **Purusha** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:35 am

I'd be tempted to grab hold of a Line6 Pod.

You could even just use the amp sim side of things and then use your Kronos' delays and reverbs.

The Pod would take care of any pre-amp levels so that you could go into your Kronos if you do want to use its effects.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:53 am

I use a Zoom G1XnExt pedal. I just run it straight into my monitor system.i think it sounds great and it's cheap to buy, too!

I don't run it through my Kronos.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:06 pm

+! I use a G2.1u an older version but still it sounds respectable. Nothing like my tube amps but miles ahead of the Kronos amp sims

JohnDonovan · Post by **JohnDonovan** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Yes - If I use a Pod or similar I won't put the guitar through the Kronos at all - I was interested to see if it was possible to do it.

LZ · Post by LZ » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:05 am

FYI - I've experimented a little with routing external devices through the Kronos effects. I was putting together a duo and routing my vocal mic into input 1 and out output 1 using effects and sometimes routing into vocoder. It worked well. Inputs are balanced, so XLR to TRS balanced cable helped a lot in that application.

I do an occasional fill-in gig with a band that is not my own where I've been doing some rhythm guitar. With short notice, I just worked up a patch on my boss VF1 for the half dozen gigs I've done. But I'd rather not drag out my whole rack for that one piece. So I thought about exactly what you suggest. I have a POD, but it's a little awkward and a bunch of cables and crap....

So, I'm thinking about running through my SansAmp TriOD pedal, into input 1, through any other effects I need (called up by the set list), out Aux 1 and into a DI. I think it will work well. If you continue to experiment with OD pedals prior to the FX chain, I would be interested in your results. My next gig with those guys is Oct 4.

Note: in general, I've noticed the Kronos having more issues than most keyboards with things like ground loops and noise - though it can be eliminated using some "best practices". I liken it to a computer....which it is. How many of you have run audio out of a laptop with insane levels of noise, only to find that when you unplug the power and run battery, it all goes away? Such is the Kronos.

Run balanced when you can
Plug everything connected to the Kronos into the same outlet when you can
Use DI's for no other reason than isolation, when you can

andrewt · Post by **andrewt** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:54 am

I route my 12-string (acoustic) guitar through my Kronos at gigs, just going through EQ, which works fine since there's no amp sim involved. I've also connected my electric guitar as well as pedal steel, and run into the same issues you have.

I think one important thing is to run through some sort of preamp before the Kronos, as the Kronos doesn't technically have a separate mic preamp, just an adjustable amount of gain (as I understand it; I could be wrong though, so feel free to correct). I use a standalone preamp with my acoustic guitar and I notice a big difference in noise level. That way you can set the button next to the input to Line instead of Mic.

slowtrain · Post by **slowtrain** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:14 am

I think the important thing about connecting a guitar to the Kronos is to run it through a pedal or D.I. box in order to change the source impedance. I got a BOSS pedal because the output impedance is 1K. Guitars output impedance is above 10K for humbuckers and almost 10K for single coils, so they usually run into 470K or 1 Meg input impedance, but the kronos input impedance is 10K. It says in one of the manuals to use a pedal or D.I. box between the guitar and Kronos, otherwise you lose signal, especially high frequencies. Unless your guitar or bass has an onboard preamp, then it should work without a pedal.

The Kronos works fine as a Mic preamp because microphones have a low impedance signal. My e835 has a 300 Ohm source impedance, for example. I use an XLR to TRS mic cable. I think the Line/Mic switch is more for level matching than impedance matching, but I don't know if it changes the impedance or not.