What the ES2 really is

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:56 pm

Friends,

I've got an E2. I kind of like it.

Now, I wonder, to all of you who own an ES2:

Is it basically the E2, but with your own samples and some rough sampling options thrown in for measure?

Like the Volca Sample, but with added Electribe pimp and rough sampling to boost? I love the Volca Sample.

So if you like the E2, and you like your library of samples, could you really go wrong with the ES2?

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

I don't own it but I'd say if you don't already have an ESX, you have nothing to lose. I'm still waiting to see what makes it better than an ESX. Sound quality may be the only major thing and I can't find anyone to compare to a tube bypassed ESX yet....

Otherwise it has minor improvements and things I personally consider big steps back from the ESX.

But it's definitely more capable than a volca sample or es1.

It has less filter types and very basic va synthesis compared to the E2. That said if you have an E2, and you like it, I'd think you like the E2S as well.

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:49 pm

That's what I'm thinking too. There's a lot to like about the new Tribes if you just listen to their sound and what you can do with each voice. As a groove box take on a workstation, they're just not there, but the two together I think will accomplish this. What with resampling, and the E2 plugged directly into the ES2, I just can't see how this rig can't produce amazing tracks.

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:24 am

It is unfinished thats what it is. No note decay and FX carrying over to the next pattern is a deal breaker. Having clicks and pops and artifacts is a deal breaker. Not being able to use all 16 parts due to quasi polyphony and voice stealing is also a deal breaker. 24 paraphonic is a joke when an oscillator on its own can use up to 3 voices. Playing a chord with some FX will eat up to 8 voices. Thats nearly half gone with a chord. They should've called it the Kaos Pad Pro and be done with it.

jim555 · Post by **jim555** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:45 am

dutchcow wrote:It is unfinished thats what it is. No note decay and FX carrying over to the next pattern is a deal breaker. Having clicks and pops and artifacts is a deal breaker. Not being able to use all 16 parts due to quasi polyphony and voice stealing is also a deal breaker. 24 paraphonic is a joke when an oscillator on its own can use up to 3 voices. Playing a chord with some FX will eat up to 8 voices. Thats nearly half gone with a chord. They should've called it the Kaos Pad Pro and be done with it.

You are going to have those issues with any digital device. My Octatrack and Virus have those issues when pushed to its limits though their ceiling is much higher. Then again they also cost significantly more.

Unless you get a full analog gear, all the problems you mentioned will show up once the processing power of the digital gear is pushed to its limits.

And analog gear have their own set of issues as well.

Go read other forums (Moog, Elektron, DSI, ACCESS, Novation, TE etc..). You'll find they all have various issue. Some more serious than the ones you've mentioned. People all complain on the forums but they also all try to work around the short comings.

It's all part of being a "Electronic" musician.

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:24 am

You must be joking. If I play a long note near the end of a pattern and change pattern the note carries over to the next, and so are FX on pretty much any box I got in my home. This includes groove boxes from the 90s.

The fact the the E2 can't carry over note decay and FX tails says enough. If you think this happens on all electronic gear you must have a lot of lemons.

Poumtschak · Post by **Poumtschak** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:54 am

Older gear often had dedicated FX processors and send/return busses, hence the effects tails carrying over without taxing the main sound generator. About the synth part, it's a bit of a shame really that there's no "Patch remain" function, like in the old Roland gear. Then, if it was something that was part of the design requirement, or even fixable afterwards, I see no point in releasing the unit and having the OS evolve from 1.00 to 1.05/1.07 without any improvement on this particular flaw.
If it's the way it is, that's most likely for technical reasons and we're gotta live with it.

Anyways...

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:22 am

Even if they had dedicated chips, it doesn't take away the fact that everything electronica has become loads faster, loads smaller and loads cheaper. There is no excuse to release a box with such underpowered hardware that you can barely use 10 parts of the 16, let alone 16 of the 16.

Not the even the mention the flaky polyphony which Korg calls paraphony because even 24 separate voices was too much to ask for. You get 24 that share parameters with others. Also FX and oscillators eat in to the voice count. There is no reason the box couldn't have 64/128 proper voice polyphony.

Embedded devices in 2015 are so much more powerful than even the most expensive box from the 90s. Korg failed with the E2. And I don't think they can salvage it. It's been 6 months since release and still no fixes. I'm, sure it is coming soon though

jim555 · Post by **jim555** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:15 pm

dutchcow wrote:You must be joking. If I play a long note near the end of a pattern and change pattern the note carries over to the next, and so are FX on pretty much any box I got in my home. This includes groove boxes from the 90s.

The fact the the E2 can't carry over note decay and FX tails says enough. If you think this happens on all electronic gear you must have a lot of lemons.

No. I'm not joking. As I said, if you push the box to its limit. My Virus can have 16 part multi-timbral sounds and depending on the sounds and what I'm doing with it, some notes do get truncated.

Even though your boxes from the past can do the trailing notes, how good did it sound compare to the E2?

As I said, these boxes are no different than a computer running a program.
There is a finite limit to how much the boxes can process at a given time. Korg probably decided to make the synth engine a priority over the FX engine.

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:03 pm

On the electribe you don't cook up something called "Awesome Moog Bass Patch" then write some sequences that use that sound. You don't even get to name the "patches."

People are conditioned to think of a synth, a sequence, and an effect as 3 different things. But inside the electribe it's a blob of code.

The pattern is the sound, the sequence, and the effects - it's a long string of data that is loaded into the DSP. One pattern at a time.

Maybe Korg could provide 2 patterns at once for tails if each pattern ran at half the sample rate.

Considering the master effect can't loop or delay longer than a quarter-note, I don't think we'll be getting dual pattern loading just so some people can enjoy decays and tails when they switch patterns.

gizmoismogwai · Post by **gizmoismogwai** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:06 pm

Ted3000 wrote:On the electribe you don't cook up something called "Awesome Moog Bass Patch" then write some sequences that use that sound. You don't even get to name the "patches."

I personally like this because it forces me to really learn how to create sounds using the oscillators if I don't want my patterns to all sound same-y.

That said, if only Korg would have allowed the devices to copy parts between patterns you could technically reserve some patterns on the device to =be libraries of your favorite sounds you've made. Right now the only thing to do is copy an entire pattern that contains a sound you want to reuse, wipe everything but that part's sound and go from there. Or on the ES2 I guess you could resample a sound and do it that way.