philosophical thoughts about the em2 workflow

MaartenNl · Post by **MaartenNl** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:47 pm

philosophical thoughts about the em2 workflow and the way the limitations of the em2 are good

This thread is for some positive and philosophical thinking. Reply with your vision and the things you discovered. This topic is not about deep technical stuff, but more about the artistic process.

So: a week ago the next thing popped up in my mind, which gave me a new perspective on the Electribe 2:

"Software (DAW's) are made for making songs, but the electribe2 is for making music"

My point is: you have to accept the limitations: You can't make complex melodies (like in classical music, trance hardstyle etc.) and chord progressions. You need to focus on the music, especially on the beats/rhythms.

When i use the electribe2 my whole body gets involved, like a guitar player. With software i mainly use hands for controlling the mouse.

When you drop the mindset of making songs you don't need 8 bars (but it will be handy offcourse). Even with 1 bar you can make great things: you'll add variety by playing (live) notes, tweaking knobs, pressing the xy/pad, changing the oscillator and eventually switching to the next pattern, which gives new opportunities in you 'trip into musicland'.

Please reply with your vision, crazy idea's you feel you personally invented by trial and error and be thankful to Korg (if they did the whole: You can't make complex melodies in 4 bars-thing ' on purpose for the sake of creativity and let you focus on 'dance to the rythm'

)

blackholesun · Post by **blackholesun** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:22 pm

Nice thoughts.

I have to say that you can make complex melodies and chord progressions on the Electribe. Part of my workflow is finding workarounds.

roblabs · Post by **roblabs** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:34 pm

I'll probably add more later, but my initial thoughts: get to know every knob on the electribe. Each one can add variety to yr sounds when used live. Recently I've been using the pitch knob more and more.

sl23 · Post by **sl23** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:15 pm

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MaartenNl · Post by **MaartenNl** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:48 pm

blackholesun wrote:Nice thoughts.

I have to say that you can make complex melodies and chord progressions on the Electribe. Part of my workflow is finding workarounds.

Depends on how you define 'complex':) I have found an example:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n0n31zJ5Sr0/maxresdefault.jpg

A melody like this is possible, but you have to do a lot of single-note edit.

But i found another example: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lvYFp_rtGhE/maxresdefault.jpg

Sure, with some creativity you can do a lot. But in a DAW you have a overview of the whole track at once and the electribe 2 its just 'living in the moment'.

PureSecksPirate · Post by **PureSecksPirate** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:38 pm

I couldn't agree more. Too many people went into the e2 the thinking it was going to be the emx2, which it ain't. It's new beast with limitations that will force you to figure out work arounds.

Example: part of why slap bass was discovered was due to a lack of percussive beats around at the moment. A bassist slapped the bottom string for a kick and plucked the top strong for a snare. Boom! A workaround. The e2 is not a daw. It's not a synth. Its an instrument.

The main reason I love groove boxes, especially ele tribes, is because the are computer free instruments. I'm a graphic designer by trade so the last think I want to do when writing music is be at a conference computer. They are great for mixing and mastering, however I prefer old fashioned jamming.

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:43 am

Haha, if you can't make melodies or chord progressions you're not making music but noise.

That said, I don't think you can say that this machine can't be used for melodies/chord progressions. Scything that would mean any device with just 4 bars is unable for it, and that is false.

A proper song mode or pattern chain mode would be very much welcomed but you can make consecutive patterns, they just won't play back automatically.

If you fail making chord progressions or melodies the problem lies without you, not the device.

apapdop · Post by **apapdop** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:12 am

dutchcow wrote:Haha, if you can't make melodies or chord progressions you're not making music but noise.

oooohhhhhh... now that's controversial...

MaartenNl · Post by **MaartenNl** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:32 pm

Dutchcow, i think what you say is right about the chords, the electribe2 have the right tools for making chords. I've also made beautiful things on the e2.

My point was that we should't complain about the limitations, if you really want the job done everything is possible. Software sequencers are for programming music. Yes, i also program notes into the sequencer, but it doesnt feel that way. In software sequencer you have the start of a song end the end of your song. The electribe2 has no begin and no end, there is no feeling of time, just building up patterns, break down, creating new stuff.

Dutchcow, can you be more specific how you manage to do advanced chord progressions? Do younstart for example on e and then transpose up and/or down?

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:48 pm

apapdop wrote:
dutchcow wrote:Haha, if you can't make melodies or chord progressions you're not making music but noise.

oooohhhhhh... now that's controversial...

You're saying that as if I hate noise

Not that I would listen to that to relax, I rather play some Deaf Center. Though I do wonder when the first Japanoise videos featuring the E2 will be on the tubes

Maarten, sometimes I split the melody on some parts, or over several patterns. I don't transpose but play the chords/notes for each pattern/part. As fellow Yamaha user you could also use an old RS7000/RM1x as master, then you can create parts with different bar lengths and use the E2 as a module. Downside is that it requires (a lot of) programming.

I think the way to go with the E2 is to create new patterns as if they were free (and they are). The only downsides atm is that there is no song mode or pattern chaining, just pattern set (but thats manual) and you can't easily change a sound without having to go trough all patterns. There is an editor out here but didn't try that yet. Could be useful to fine tune your tracks near the end stages.

MaartenNl · Post by **MaartenNl** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:44 pm

dutchcow wrote: Maarten, sometimes I split the melody on some parts, or over several patterns.

Oh, i remember that method, i did that a few years ago on a Roland groovebox (it was a mc 303 or mc 307, i have both machines (need to dust 'm off;))

I think that method is great for using on the electribe 2. Thats a nice way to do 8 bars:) You're helpful Dutchow, thank you. I'm from holland too.

I'v also owned the RM1X for a while, but i sold it. I remember that i used the rm1x as a sequencer for my jv1010. I like the sounds of the jv-1010 (roland) but i hate the way you need to select instruments. Very complicated:S.

I keep my yamaha qy-70. The qy-70 is very handy for transposing(and really fast, one or 2 buttons and you go from c7 to a#aug or something like that. But the qy-70 is another story:)

Another thing about workflow: Scroll to your older patterns and compare it with other (better) stuff. Edit the patterns so they'll be better. Recycle the good stuff:) Copy sounds, make another melody. Or copy the melody(the notes) and select another osc. Simple tweaks can sound like a total new song, without loosing the musical flow

_INTER_ · Post by **_INTER_** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:52 pm

Haha, if you can't make melodies or chord progressions you're not making music but noise.

Agreed. Not providing a song mode for the EM2 is simply Korg slacking off hard. Not some kind of intentional restriction / omitting to "fit" any workflow.

dutchcow · Post by **dutchcow** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:58 am

Yeah, a song or pattern chain mode would be great for those of us that are too lazy or busy to change patterns manually. Specially when performing it is nice to be able to let it play back a pattern set or song so you can concentrate on fiddling with the knobs and other things rather than changing patterns in time.

Tom 62 · Post by **Tom 62** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:55 am

I have to agree that limited possibilities are good for creativity. I have absolutely no problems with the reduced parameter set of the new Electribes. The lack of song mode/pattern chaining hurts but I can live with it. The limited pattern lenght still bothers me extremely because I want to use the Electribe as instrument. It's a question of the musical flow. Within 8 bars you got other musical ideas than inside 4 bars. See all those Mistabishi patterns. Most of them are half-tempo. Not without a reason.

aquifer_music · Post by **aquifer_music** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:46 am

There is also the workaround Dutchcow mentioned of splitting you're 8 bar melody in half and live part muting between the two halves to mock a longer synth part or sample set...
Afterthought...
If a later update allowed part mute into the motion sequence this trick could just be programmed into a pattern.