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Vadim
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 625
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Yes software sequencer are much better,
and of coarse it would be much better if OASYS had a sequencer like Cubase, Sonar....
But who is using Workstation sequencer for deep editing today?
Nothing is stopping you to hook up your OASYS to a computer..
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jazzman1
Senior Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder if it would work if Korg made a Workstation with the D-series 32 Track stand alone incorparated in it. Roland did something like this years ago with one of thier Workstations. i dont remember the model but It had the MC-series builted within with all the functions and controls for the MC-500 on one side of the unit but the Synth and recorder were intergrated. It even had two separate readouts. |
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2433
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Arend Groot wrote: | | Mike Conway wrote: |
The MIDI Event Editor now stays open, while you play your song and make edits (note duration, moving, velocity, etc.). No more making a single change and having to exit the window to see if your edit works. This litttle 1.3. add on seems to be getting ignored, but it is huge for workflow. |
Thanks Mike for the info. Does it mean that the tracks in the event editor are changing when you change them in the Song mode ( when the event editor is open of course)?
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Arend, you can only open one track at a time. Basically, a pop up box comes up and has a play button, so that you don't have to exit the MIDI Event Editor to hear a change. It's a small addition, but very useful if you do a lot of editing. |
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Arend Groot
Full Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Conway wrote: |
Arend, you can only open one track at a time. Basically, a pop up box comes up and has a play button, so that you don't have to exit the MIDI Event Editor to hear a change. It's a small addition, but very useful if you do a lot of editing. |
Thanks Mike, can't wait tille the the new update! And any improvement of the sequencer is most welcome and this one speeds up the my song editing.
Arend |
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Unknown Sound
Full Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 129
Location: On a small island just off the coast of an island not to far from Antarctica
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Hey Mike,
Informative as usual. BTW: When is Exile out?
_US. |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="MartinHines"] | Kontrol49 wrote: |
| Kontrol49 wrote: | | Something else that I find arrogant to users is that they never have a Cross Platform format,like some Korg own format with regards to the Sequencer files,the Trinity,Triton,Oasys pretty much work on the same parameters in terms of the overall operations,yet none of them have a cross platfrom ability to exchange seq data in the proper Korg format |
Files, whether they are .pcg files or .sng files have content and data that is specific to that instrument. Perhaps it would have been nice for Korg to provide some type of "forward conversion program", but I don't think it is that hard to use .mid files. |
No its not hard to use Midifiles,thats not my issues,a conversion program would be valuable,there are many users like myself who would have liked to load these Seqeunces in Korg format from previous sequencers,especially if they are not composed in a linear type way and rely on Patterns this would preserve the setup of the Songs rather than have to convert to Midi file format,the Problem isn't with the Use of Midi files,its the way the Data is compressed and accessed.PCG data is negligable,that relies on synthesis engines,so no-one would expect cross compaitble file other than that of the same type,sequence data is merely Numbers,and can be easily transferable.
When I construct a song I invariably use the Patterns,to create the riffs Loops etc of the song them insert those Pattern sections into tracks,rather than record directly into every track,this uses less memory when used in a Copy to track situation or recording into the Track,hence working like a "Ghost" part,this helps to preserve sequence Memory.
Now because I construct the songs in this method,when I want to transfer the songs to another Sequencer Hence Trinity>Triton>Oasys,I have to use the Midifile Standard,this then copys the data to the tracks and places the Midi events inside the Tracks rather than keeping the Patterns in their location,hence not preserving the Pattern selections,so when I open the files On the secondary sequencer after importing as .Mid extensions,irrespective of it being a Korg device,the Patterns are not transferred over,this was my issue,which means if I wanted to rework the songs I have to edit the tracks and copy and paste the patterns back into their Locations,to keep the songs as they were in a Korg format sequencer which is time consuming and pointless.when you've got a library of over 100 songs,on Trinity/Triton,I neither have the time or effort to want to go through the same construction process again for a Further Workstation.Some are fine as Midifile sequences,but I'm limited in how many I can load in the Sequencer at a time when the data is not preserved to free up memory.Which for many of my set lists is not practical to have to keep stopping and loading a few more in during the set.The Oasys is perfect due to the H/drive and larger song capacity,but I have to go through the reworking procedure to make the sequences as they were constructed,which is as I say very time consuming.It would be better to keep them preserved how they were Made,as I cna edit and rearrange things without too much tedious editing.
If there was a common Korg format which allowed a file transfer,in Korgs own Format that would preserve the songs Midi data and Pattern information as they are,as for IFX/MFX then I can live with these not being cross comaptible for obvious reasons ,But I'd rather spend a small amount of time reassigning the efx,than having to repaste the patterns etc.
There is a Standard Midi file Format 2,which works in this method,preserving any Pattern data constructed Songs this would be the type of standard Korg could implement which,is exactly what there sequencers are based upon,yet no-one of the Main Manufacturers I know utilises it,even if they don't have a standard across all manufacturers,surely it wouldn't be too much too ask for all Korg Sequencers to be cross compatible in this way,after all its the basis of the Trinity/Triton/Oasys anyway
I do have an external Sequencer which takes care of everything now I have of course imported the songs into that as .Mid,but thats simply because its not Korg Format and I have to use this extension for obvious reasons,Plus its far easy to edit the Songs on this device but I would like one day for the Oasys to be the centre Piece and Load all those Previous Korg format created songs. |
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Jaylaca
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Venice, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Sequencer complaints |
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I am surprised at the amount of upset there is about the sequencer. It's only a small part of a very wonderful whole unit.
I hear you, those who argue that the sequencer should be awesome for the cost. I get it. But it's not something that weighed in the decision to by mine. It was the experience, sounds, GE's, options, controls, feel, GUI that all made it the synth of choice for me.
Honestly, I could record this thing to my old 4-track cassette and knock people's socks off.
I'm surprised to find so many people using the internal sequencer. Or perhaps the DAW users just never post because there's no issue for us. The sequencer is not why I bought the unit at all. For the price of admission one would think the majority of users this advanced would have some computer DAW setup sitting in the same room.
Just to mix it up on the type of posts on this issue. I use the Adat EXB-DI card and send 8 channels via Fiber Optic to Cubase SX. the O follows the Midi Clock I set in Cubase, so all FX are in sync. It's a dream come true. I can send layered sounds with GE's on separate channels (up to 8 at once) as stems to Cubase. so if I feel the need to remix things later, I can.
IF there is any part of the UI that could use some simplifing it would be the Disk File System. I'm fairly savvy with PC's and Windows. To be honest, I find the File System on the O confusing. I do not find it intuitive, and having to re-learn this disk system has been a challenge for me. This is the first Korg product I've ever owned, maybe that has something to do with it. I come from Yamaha land.
Cheers,
Jason |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I am surprised at the amount of upset there is about the sequencer. It's only a small part of a very wonderful whole unit. |
 Can't say I would consider the sequencer only a small part of the OASYS. It's the one feature that you would use all the time if your not an external sequencer user.
Everyone needs a sequencer be it internal or external. So personally, I'd see this as a major part of the OASYS.
This has been festering for a long time, long before the OASYS existed. So what surprises me is that this took so long to finally flare up.
| Quote: | | The sequencer is not why I bought the unit at all. For the price of admission one would think the majority of users this advanced would have some computer DAW setup sitting in the same room. |
I think what we are seeing is the complete opposite. There are two groups. The first group are DAW users, and while some are very happy staying where they are, there are also a number of users finding that they want to do it all on the OASYS. Which is not unreasonable considering what the OASYS stands for.
And then there's the second group who are the hardware users that have used nothing but KORG's on-board sequencers. We know that there is a clear split on the forum here and at least 50% or more people are on-board sequencer users. So for them, a DAW is not an option. They simply prefer the on-board systems.
I think the way things are going, this issue is going to start consuming threads, so it might be best to start one thread for the Sequencer and restrict everyone to venting there.
Regards.
Sharp. |
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nitecrawler
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 975
Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Sharp Quote: "I think the way things are going, this issue is going to start consuming threads, so it might be best to start one thread for the Sequencer and restrict everyone to venting there."
Got my vote!
Regards, Nitecrawler   |
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vEddY
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 1263
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: |
I think what we are seeing is the complete opposite. There are two groups. The first group are DAW users, and while some are very happy staying where they are, there are also a number of users finding that they want to do it all on the OASYS. Which is not unreasonable considering what the OASYS stands for.
And then there's the second group who are the hardware users that have used nothing but KORG's on-board sequencers. We know that there is a clear split on the forum here and at least 50% or more people are on-board sequencer users. So for them, a DAW is not an option. They simply prefer the on-board systems.
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We're all people, and people always whine, even when they don't have anything to whine about, right? Also, more features means more chaos, but not only the negative chaos but that chaos that creates "happy accidents". When you're doing music, that's always a good thing. But those accidents are more likely to happen when you have more synth engines, sounds to choose from and those things then a super-funky-technolicious sequencer.
At least that's how I feel.
OASYS is not a supercomputer, it has its own limits and boundaries, and I was very well aware of that when I bought it. I pay my full respects to KORG for delivering this astounding machine, but I was also aware that if they went ahead with the plan they had for it, somewhere along those lines there would have to be a wall. And I must say that I'd be much happier IF it turns out that that wall relates to the internal sequencer (I'm not saying that it is, I'm just saying that it's better that way). If it was synth engines and sound, then it would be entirely different story. And as a person that KORG people might or might not like dealing with (it feels like the latter for quite awhile now), I have contacts with people from various companies (including KORG and companies supplying KORG with hardware) and phone/e-mail contacts with KORG owners in my country on a regular-daily basis. I do a lot of training for them, for free, repairs, manual translations, instructions, product presentations, the whole shabbang. It's a lot of work, long hours with little or no rewards. Except when I come home and turn on my OASYS and M3. And I really don't want to spend that time whining, bitching and moaning about little things that I already overcame.
To sum it up, before I got the Triton Studio that I sold a couple of weeks ago (no need for it anymore), I abused Trinity's sequencer's to the point where it was praying for mercy, and I've done it pretty extensively for a number of years. Then I got the D16 for audio only and I used that combination, hmm.. let's say A LOT. I don't think that I used TS's sequencer for more then twice in my entire time that I had it because I just went forward with my minimum SEQ requirements and it wasn't able to meet those demands. As Borg would say, I adapted. And I had it for close to five years (if I remember correctly, it was introduced in January 2002). Now I'm using Sonar and Cubase and I'm quite happy with those two. I'm not saying that anyone of you who wants a better sequencer is right or wrong, I'm just saying that what it comes down to is market/business approach that drives sales and marketing and therefor development and future production. And if you do a in-depth analisys/comparison of what competitors have in their workstations, you'll end up concluding that noone has everything you want, period, and that OASYS is as close as it gets to that term "perfection". And there's absolutely NO WAY to deliver a superb sequencer in a workstation that has a screen less then half the size of the LCD screen I'm looking at right now, so why waste so much time getting upset and nervous over something that will not be better then the computer/standalone solution anytime soon? Personally, I think KORG should be commended for putting such an enormous amount of effort into 1.3, EXs3 and MOD-7, not constantly whiped for the things they still didn't do.
Just my 2c.
Cheers,
vEddY.
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