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MOD-7 vs NI FM8 ?

 
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Jugo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: MOD-7 vs NI FM8 ? Reply with quote

I wonder how is the FM synth in Kronos compared with Native Instruments' FM8 ?
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allanjhall



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably not as versatile as FM8 which much more than 6 op fm and is nearer to FS1r than DX7, however I'm sure Kronos will do a very passable imitation of a DX7 (including loading patches) which is probably all most users will need.

But please look at everything else you are getting - a mk2 Oasys at a third of the price! As a former owner of an Oasys 76 this has to be the synth bargain of the decade.

If you really need FM8 then buy NI FM8, a PC and controller keyboard, if you want the best workstation keyboard ever then wait and buy a Kronos......
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tritonlover2000
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the Native Instrument stuff sounds like digital crap: clear and digital with no soul whatsoever. Just like Cakewalk stuff (Dimension, Rapture). This may sound like an oxymoron since FM is digital synthesis, but remember FM on DX is more than just 0s and 1s there are active and passive circuit components inside.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now now. I like Pro-53 quite a bit...
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allanjhall wrote:
Probably not as versatile as FM8 which much more than 6 op fm and is nearer to FS1r than DX7


MOD-7 will probably surprise you. It can process samples and audio (SY99 style). You can actually run on MOD-7 into the audio input of another, in the same program.

I posted some Youtube examples, in an earlier THREAD:

MOD-7 and PolySix patch tour
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tritonlover2000
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pro-53 is ok mate, i just don't like most of their plugins. Even the Kontakt vienna orchestra that is way hyped since it sounds 1 dimensional even with all the realistic samples. i am glad native instruments is offering them for 499 because inspite of all the programming power of reaktor, absynth, i don't think it should cost more than 499. the only collection is somewhat like is the 'arturia collection'.

i can't blame NI either. even the korg's legacy collection sounds real crappy inside the computer, but when its played from oasys, it has some 'warmth' added due to hardware circuitry.

this is why i still invest in hardware when so many cheapy softsynths are available. You gotta have that WARMTH! Smile And thats why hardware synths/workstations will never die.

my dimensional ranking is like this:
softsynths sound 1 dimensional
hardware digital sounds 2 dimensional
analog synths and real acoustic instruments sound 3 dimensional

i am sure many will agree with me.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allanjhall wrote:
Probably not as versatile as FM8 which much more than 6 op fm and is nearer to FS1r than DX7, however I'm sure Kronos will do a very passable imitation of a DX7 (including loading patches) which is probably all most users will need.

But please look at everything else you are getting - a mk2 Oasys at a third of the price! As a former owner of an Oasys 76 this has to be the synth bargain of the decade.

If you really need FM8 then buy NI FM8, a PC and controller keyboard, if you want the best workstation keyboard ever then wait and buy a Kronos......



Sorry - I need to interject here. It's your 'passable imitaiton' statement that needs serious rectifying!! (no offence to you - it's just its a huge understatement). I don't know FM8 (though I own Komplete 7 but my computer is broken and I haven't installed it yet). But what I can say is that MOD-7 is a hugely sophisticated synthesizer engine. It replicates DX/FM sounds essentially 100% faithfully, but with better DACs and better polyphony - and that’s for starters. Of course it reads DX/FM systems exclusive files so you have ready access to hundreds of thousands of sounds from the DX1, DX7, TX802, TX616, TX7 free archives, among others (and Korg has already released expansion packs for all its EXi's including MOD-7 and these are among the best existing ‘FM’ programs) . Even if the older DX sounds are a little basic (and many thousands of them are very capable even today), they act as starting points for you to extend easily with Kronos. Think of the DX/FM archive as the basic program already done for you, so even if you don’t understand FM synthesis, all the hard work is done for you and you can just enjoy modifying it with the substantial realtime controllers, by adding effects by combining two FM sounds in one MOD-7 Programs, as examples...

Also among the advantages over DX range of synthesizers includes:

- Excellent user interface for programming
- Excellent physical controllers for real time manipulation
- Better polyphony
- All the support of the surrounding EXi including two MOD-7 engines (or one MOD-7 and another EXi engine) per program, 16 effects, step sequencers and so on.

The central MOD-7 ‘synth engine’ itself is very sophisticated. As an OASYS owner it has been frustrating to not see it programmed that much because of the relatively low number of OASYS that sold. But with potentially far greater Kronos sales, it is surely reasonable to expect 3rd party sound libraries to emerge, and MOD-7 can allow for jaw-droppingly sophisticated synthesis, some of which includes:

- The engine is semi-modular, meaning that the setup of operators as carriers or modulators is totally user configurable

- The ability to feed samples into the algorithm as modulators, simulating close approximations of the Yamaha SY77/99 Realtime Convolution and Modulation (RCM) synthesis – that is huge in scope.

- Polyphonic LFO's, with I think 4 per voice, giving well over 200 LFO's (important when controlling the LFO's by, say note number or note velocity)

- Polyphonic Ring Modulators - that is 50 Ring Modulators (one per voice) meaning the amount of metallic-ness can be controlled per note (adds a new dimension to FM electric pianos, for example, not dissimilar to the Yamaha EX5 Formulated Digital Signal Processing (FDSP) which also allocates effects per note (albeit more sophisticated ring modulators but just 16 note polyphonic)

- Wave shaping...

...and lots more.


So MOD-7 is a very sophisticated synthesizer, as are all the engines on Kronos - you'll be sick of hearing that before the instrument is released; but it's true – it provides dimensions in sound creation and programmability that are typical of the entire suite of NI or Arturia synthesizers – but – with near zero latency even at very high voice counts. so you need not fear limitations in each synth spec – all are no compromises, full and complete engines, including MOD-7. There are no short cuts in these instruments.

Kevin.
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Teh Mick
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quoting a post from another thread here. realkukl is a sound designer working with Korg for a long time and knowns a lot about FM.

realkuhl wrote:
I traveled from my mom & dad's music store in Ontario Oregon 480 miles to see the introduction of the DX-7 in Portland Oregon. I've programmed or sold fm synthesizers since they came out. I have made a custom patch bank I sell at my website (www.pluginguru.com) for FM8.

Nothing comes close to the purity of the FM from OASYS and now from KRONOS. The engine and abilities are identical. Drum Track being the big addition and a different U.I. (of course).

The harmonic distortion, noise floor and other critical elements as well as having the fastest EG's to work with make for FM synthesis like you can only dream of....... not to mention, then putting your patch thru up to 16 high quality effects, if you wish.... Smile

Greetings from Rainy Portland, Oregon.



robinkle wrote:
Mike Conway wrote:
robinkle wrote:
I've got the DX7 IIFD with grey matter E!. and I have the SY77. I will get ridd of both to collect cash for the Kronos.


You will probably love, love, love MOD-7, but be aware that its workflow is Korg style, not Yamaha. There are many more parameters and values - Operator Velocity setting is -100 to +100, for instance. One thing that threw me was that the operators are in reverse order of Yamaha's setup - Operator 1 is on top of the algorithm stack. It does not port SY sounds, but you can program those kind of sounds.

Just be aware, in case you have a big personal library, which is another reason I keep the SY99.


I can live with those changes from Korg, and most sounds I made on the SY77 are easy to remake. I can bet on that the soundquality is greatly improved as well. I really think I will love MOD-7, I feel convinced even before testing it in person. I just know kronos is right for me. Maby strange or maby not. :S

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peter_schwartz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOD-7 has the equivalent of 6-op architecture (a la DX7) but with the ability to custom-configure algorithms that didn't exist for the DX7, and with a wider choice of waveforms for each oscillator. You have the additional resources of a noise generator as well as PCM as modulators, so it would be fair to say that it's 8-op, and modular as well.

When doing MOD-7 programming for Korg I found that PCM, used as a modulator, is best for creating "industrial" or "ambient noise" type sounds. Noise, on the other hand, is a very useful modulator. And unlike the DX7 architecture, where if you wanted to use noise as a modulator you had to raise its feedback up to 7, which kind of wasted an op. Here you have a dedicated noise gen, so that spares you an op in those circumstances.

In terms of the sound, it can produce everything you'd expect from FM and then some, including some very WARM sounding patches. I think it's a great model, and IMO anyone who's into FM sounds will probably find the model to be endlessly versatile, even surprising in terms of the sounds that can be created.

In terms of comparing it to FM-8, there are sonic differences. Whether you like one over the other is purely a matter of taste. I find FM-8 sounds to cut a little too much in a track, whereas MOD-7 sounds a bit more "natural". These are, of course, subjective terms. But all subjectivity aside, you can't get MOD-7 as a plugin for your computer-based DAW, so if you want MOD-7 you... have to buy a Kronos! Smile

HTH

-=Peter=-
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iixorbiusii
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can actually already hear a little of what mod-7 has to offer in respect to DX7 authenticity - Stephen Kay mentions in his thread about his Challenger tribute song, that the e.piano sound, amongst others, is a modified patch straight out of his DX7II... Sounds good to me Wink
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