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Convince me NOT to get a Kronos
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realtrance



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrk btw have the MS20 app on my iPad, love it, for what it is; the sound is amazingly good. Is it as much fun as a real MS20? No, but it's a blast to have something so portable that provides at least some of the patching fun the MS20 has; I wish Moog had gone as far, instead of releasing Filtatron... oh well.

If Korg released all the rest of Kronos on iPad... I'd still want the Kronos, though. To be able to call it all up, instantly, on a real keyboard, that's the ultimate thing.

And Bachus, quite true, and significantly cheaper, but the thing that appeals on Kronos to me (that _almost_ appealed on Fantom with the ARX cards.....) is that it's taken the next step towards enabling more expressive use of synth resources, in a more seamless way, something all of hardware/software instrumentdom is heading towards (V-Synth, Kontakt, etc.). With my XP-80 even with an XV-5080 that performative upgrade isn't there. I truly think that's an advance in synthesis, not just in tech; for years, we've worked with the limitations imposed by electronic music technology, made those limitations an intrinsic strength, even. What's been missing though is the kind of performative, expressive "flow" that musicians have gotten traditionally out of non-electronic instruments. I think the past few years the technology's started to reach the point where if you're after that in your music-making, you don't have to fight the technology any more, or let it impose its own characteristics on what you're after. That's the appeal for me, at least.


Last edited by realtrance on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, buy a Kronos... because you MUST!!! [KORG say so.]

But don't KEEP it -- take it as an opportunity to REALLY thumb your nose at KORG and just... give it away.

Instead of posting "Free Kronos" atart another thread entitled "Convince me not to not give you my Kronos".

If anyone posts for any reason you can complain they are off topic and therefore keep the thing.

Damn

You may end up having to play it, too.


BB
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realtrance



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill, I'm assuming that's tongue in cheek... Smile

I think I'll definitely pick up a Kronos at some point; just a matter of money, time, etc.

Meanwhile yes, back to playing, thanks for the reminder. Wink

rt
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't not buy it... or just gimme the money I will take care of it for you. LOL

Anyway the iPad does have the iElectribe, Kronos doesn't even have it... Very Happy

Phil
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apex
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Convince me NOT to get a Kronos Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:


If you can spend $3000 on a Kronos, you can also spend $400 on a XV-5080 rack (seen them on ebay for much less) and put in your JV-80 cards.

That way you have the best of both worlds...


XV 5080s are not going for $400 on eBay... (I know one did the other day), but that's the first one I've seen under $500ish in a while...
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MartinHines
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are happy with your current keyboard, keep it.

Given its age you probably can not get much money for it, so I see only two options:

1. Keep your XP-80 and forget about Kronos
2. Keep your XP-80 and also buy a Kronos when you can afford it.

I have a Fantom XR rack unit sound module that I never plan to get rid of because there are some specific sounds on them I really like.
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dimitris
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't buy "Kronos"! Wait until "Zeus" is released!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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ozy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Convince me NOT to get a Kronos


spend 4000 for a Kronos, but pls don't get it: send it to me.

Is this convincing?
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Convince me NOT to get a Kronos Reply with quote

apex wrote:
Bachus wrote:


If you can spend $3000 on a Kronos, you can also spend $400 on a XV-5080 rack (seen them on ebay for much less) and put in your JV-80 cards.

That way you have the best of both worlds...


XV 5080s are not going for $400 on eBay... (I know one did the other day), but that's the first one I've seen under $500ish in a while...


I've seen one loaded with 4 expansion cards for less then 500 euro's overhere in Holland..

All it requires is the right timeing to find these, but for those prices an XV 5080 is worth every cent of it...
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realtrance



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinHines wrote:
If you are happy with your current keyboard, keep it.

Given its age you probably can not get much money for it, so I see only two options:

1. Keep your XP-80 and forget about Kronos
2. Keep your XP-80 and also buy a Kronos when you can afford it.

I have a Fantom XR rack unit sound module that I never plan to get rid of because there are some specific sounds on them I really like.


Martin, agreed; that's generally the best policy. I'm trying to resist, as I always have, the "oh this new board will do everything I want! Time to get rid of the old one!" -- since no matter how good or extensive, that's never really the case.

Hardware and software are really just crystallizations of ideas, for me; and in music, ideas aren't "new" or "old," just different. I'm always hesitant to get rid of older equipment as there's never a point where I feel I've mined all the ideas present within it. If I can learn, or even refresh memory, about how to do something in particular -- be it a modulation routing, setting for an effect, how to make a really warm sound, or cutting one, how to combine samples... it's all like cooking! I want to keep all my old "cookbooks" so I can bring together old ideas, and new ones, for something that, for my ear, is really fresh.

It's also true, I think, that over time certain ideas are lost, or buried for awhile, and -- to put it at a really superficial level -- NO new keyboard is going to provide as wide a spectrum/repository of ideas as having a variety of older instruments can provide. Even with sound designers as brilliant as Jack, and Stephen, and others, there's a certain repertoire of sonic palette, and sound design technique, that you get "built-in" with any synth, and my thing is I like to, again, mix and match. It's frankly a lot of sound design work to resurrect stuff I like and am used to in an older keyboard or softsynth or rack or whatever and bring it across to yet another instrument, be it my own work, or the integration (mostly the case) of my efforts with ideas gleaned from others.

Fortunately, over time, more ends up getting stuck in my head and I don't have to rely on keeping a keyboard for remembering a particular technique or sonic approach. Smile

Just some thoughts.
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dingo_klectos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Convince me NOT to get a Kronos Reply with quote

realtrance wrote:
Hi All,

This is just for fun -- I really neither want to spend money nor the time to get into a new keyboard right now (well, more the former than the latter), but it's an interesting thought exercise.

My situation: I have a filled ol' Roland XP-80 I've had for over a decade (well, since it came out, really) -- have the Vintage, World, Piano and Session SRJV cards in it, LOVE the whole soundset, am very familiar with the samples and patches, have had the time to learn ins and outs with the synth architecture, really, I remain as delighted with this synth as I was when I first got it. Can even replace the little CR-2032 inside when I need to, and the keybed's still just fine.

The Kronos is a couple of generations new, has the piano sampleset I've always dreamed about to fill my traditional pianistic desires, has a built-in CX-3, plus Karma, plus AL-1, well you know all the rest; it really is extremely attractive, more than any workstation I've been tempted by since 1997 (the Fantom in its final incarnation ALMOST except it just didn't have the physical ruggedness I've gotten used to with my XP-80, plus if it had been an XV-5080 full-stop with a keybed I would've been happy, but it wasn't quite that, it catered more to a popular techno dance crowd when it came out).

My dilemma is that I've just grown attached to the familiar. The internet is full of people trading keyboards up and down as if they were trinkets; that's not my way.

Do I forego the familiarity and intimacy built from years of experience with my instrument, and its architecture? Or stick with it? I'm inclined to the latter, as tempting as Kronos is.

Among other things, I love the musical work Eric Persing did during that period, and as non-hardcore as it may sound, I relish a lot of the patches in my XP-80 for their sound as much as anything else. I don't relish its pre-USB/S/PDIF digital I/O, is the only thing, but that's not really a big deal for me either.

Any encouragements/discouragements?

Thanks,

rt
Go ahead and get it!! You can just add it to the pile of Korg disappointments from the past.
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realtrance (+ others)

Re: the sound palate and vintage gear

I think you're right about NOT selling your old gear, at least not immediately IF you're using it or referring to it regularly.

But if you've got a piece of vintage gear and you're only going to it for a handful of signature sounds, my advice would be to see what you can do to clone 'em on the Kronos. As a purely intellectual exercise it would be a good way to begin to learn the potential in the K's synth engines.

The act of sound design is really about using your ears to find what's in YOUR head. You may start out trying to emulate something you heard on a recording; a sonic memory from a favorite recording. You may have a particular sound in mind; you may twist knobs in no particular order. And there is no wrong answer, only a challenge we all accept as musicians -- how do I USE that sound?

But it's kind of like Zen archery - blindfolded, aim at a target you know is there but cannot see. Draw back, and let fly.

Maybe it was a bullseye.

Maybe there are a thousand targets you didn't see because of the blindfold... and what's that in the distance? The broad side of a barn?

Every arrow hits something eventually. But not if you don't shoot.


BB
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realtrance



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,

Excellent perspective; I actually made it a point years ago to try to recreate a patch I'd made on my Nord Modular in my Andromeda. Architecture, _completely_ different; but I had the sound in my head and was curious to see how close I could get the Andromeda to sounding like the Nord, for that patch.

How I got to the sound was completely different, architecturally, on each instrument, and it was an interesting exercise trying to get an analogue synth sound like a digital one... and I learned quite a bit about the Andy along the way.

But that's the thing; if I'd ditched the NM at that point I might not have been able to do any kind of compare and contrast, or even been inspired to embark on the project in the first place.

Unfortunately, over time, if you keep everything though you start to run out of ROOM to put it all..... Wink
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Then maybe a better title for this thread is:

Convince me not to sell everything I own to GET a Kronos.

B "still got a room full of gear I have to sell" B
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billbaker

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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... it's hard to tell, it depends what you're attempting to sell.

Because there's some gear I wouldn't sell. Because old gear doesn't mean bad gear. We always try to get the best and last stuff (phone, computer, keyboard, etc...), but we forget to explore the capacities of the current and past stuff.

So, it's hard to tell... I did sell a lot of gear (sell, buy something else, sell, buy another one, etc...) and in the end, I don't want to sell anything anymore. But there's also some gear I wouldn't even think about it and would sell in a heartbeat... so it depends...

Phil
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