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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | I doubt the touch screen is a problem |
I'm in full agreement on this one...
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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maxipf
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: Re: I finally put my hands on the kronos |
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who is "Mirabella?"), please let me know.
Best regards,
Dan[/quote]
Dan, Raffaele Mirabella is an official Korg demonstrator, like Michele Paciulli. |
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robinkle
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 382
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I doubt the touch screen is a problem |
I'm in full agreement on this one... |
I think we have an agreement. |
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| If the engineers were rushed a bit to get to market, normal marketing for any company i have been with is 80% ready then it goes out the door, then I would be willing to bet a beer that Korg will have some excellent horns and such in the future for the Kronos. I won't count on it but I could see that happening. I said somewhere else it would be nice to have the ability to jack in a larger display to work off of or link to the smaller one and have choices on both screens. |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Bertotti wrote: | | I would be willing to bet a beer that Korg will have some excellent horns and such in the future for the Kronos. |
I'm afraid not (you already owe me one beer, btw. Don't forget!  )
I am not talking about "better samples". It would be a totally different engine, it takes years for thinking one through, and it's obvious they didn't work on a brass/wind engine.
I pressed Mirabella on the issue, and his recommendation was: "just load a nice sample library, there's plenty of space".
yeah, right. Motif-like.
It's like 2/3 of the kronos goes ahead, 1/3 is ballasted by old concepts ("better samples": what about articulation, expression, detail?).
The rhodes sounds of the Kronos are BEYOND "good samples". they have LIFE. They have real noises, they have frequencies I'd be able to exploit using filters...
... korg dumped the whole "sample" idea when piano and EP is concerned...
... the why feeding me s**t about "good samples" when brass and winds are concerned?
(BTW: If samples are viable, why STR-1 then? The answer is obvious. And it's not "samples can do better, just add more").
I understand the industrial rational behind it:
70% of buyers use piano, EP, hammond and pads.
25% use "virual analogue",
only 5% does sound design OR uses winds with some competence and expectations.
So, the "vintage keyboards" engines evolved (under pressure from clavia, roland, cp-1, etc), the remaining sounds are for forums debates only...
BTW: STR evolved because kar-plus is kar-minus expensive [ha, ha  ] |
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Check two beers but we'll see. If Korg choose to do an update is it possible to update with a whole new brass wind engine? Not sure engine is the correct term but Kronos has 9 now why not add to make it ten or just do an update and replace whichever one does the brass and wind now.
Off topic a bit at least you guys talk about god things in these threads. I just read four pages on a roland forum and it seems at least two were dealing with fan noises and how the Kronos has to have a fan but there are no bent slots etc.. That was funny! But a complete waste of time to read. |
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sparkie
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| McHale wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I doubt the touch screen is a problem |
I'm in full agreement on this one... |
YES I hope you are correct as well! In the demos with Rich it looks like he doesnt have a problem selecting programs? Maybe Ozy can be more specific about the pads...
I wonder how difficult it is to edit combis and programs using the touchscreen, i.e. finger touch and whether it is easy to make a mistake. |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sparkie wrote: | | it looks like he doesnt have a problem selecting programs? Maybe Ozy can be more specific about the pads... |
now, here's the point: I had problems selecting the patches.
You know oasys or m3, right?
you go to the patch name in program mode, open the category, scroll tabs and patch names? ok.
well: on the kronos, engaging the "category" is a matter of putting your fingers on a 2mm link.
TWO MMs!
Then the list opens, the tabs are ok but the names are again very narrow, I made bad choices several times.
The response at the touch is not immediate (you know, hitting "ok" a couple of time? That unnerving feeling?).
So, I won't comment on the pads, because I didn't even try them.
It is BARELY a viable screen for navigation.
anything but a musical tool IMHO. I can't see how I could play drums on a screen who doesn't open a menu at first touch.
As for programming: when programming I could easily use a pen. This is what I've done with the M3.
When you program you are not in a hurry, and you are in "thinking" mode anyway.
When playing, I'd like a better response and better reading.
As for program selection in the demos: I think that was pre-programmed in "setup" or "live" mode or wazzaname.
But that doesn't change the vote on the BASIC functioning of the screen. |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bertotti wrote: | | If Korg choose to do an update is it possible to update with a whole new brass wind engine? |
this is a dangerous path.
Oasys owners lost their souls waiting/asking/begging/arguing for SUBSTANTIAL upgrades.
After that experience, since day ONE of the Kronos they've been told "take it as is, don't expect it to be an open instrument. Bug fixes yes, open architecture no".
This I have been told by Mirabella as well yesterday: "a couple of bug fixes in the first years will certainly happen, based upon feedback and complaints about minor bugs. But..."
So, I won't base a 3800 euro purchase on a "hope".
I am evaluating the machine as it is.
| Bertotti wrote: | | I just read four pages on a roland forum and it seems at least two were dealing with fan noises |
that's the pleasure of owning a 1937 John Deer... er... I meant, a Roland Synth
BTW: too much noise in the store for evaluating the fan. Used headphones 4/5 of the time. |
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I'm sold on it as is. I do think the marketing people at Korg are short sighted though if they don't take the opportunity do a brass wind upgrade for the Kronos. I absolutely believe that one act would increase their sales significantly. A lot of people putting them down would jump on the Kronos bus because of such a act of dedication to a product on Korg's part. Very sad it won't happen. Typical of the way the Japanese do business, at least from my perspective working for a Japanese company and having lived there for a year.
I wish I had a 1937 John Deere! Hdd to sell dads 41 when he died. If only modern musical instruments had such a long useful life! |
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Akos Janca
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 1158
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your opinions, Ozy.
How could you try the Kronos? Was it especially for you or anybody could go there to try it?
PS. Wind instruments are the most difficult to imitate WELL on a keyboard synth/sampler/modeler. I think Korg could do it somehow (perhaps with a breath controller) but it needs serious development, time, money etc. so I think it simply doesn't worth it for them to do.
Good samples can be satisfying in many cases - and if not then it's better to call real musicians with real instruments instead of trying to fake the sound with a digital system - that is impossible at the end of the day.
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AkosJanca.com | Facebook | YouTube | SoundCloud | FuturePlant || OASYS-demos | nanoROCK demo | Korg Band in the Garage demo | Kronos Demo 1 | Kronos Demo 2 |
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ozy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Akos Janca wrote: | | How could you try the Kronos? Was it especially for you or anybody could go there to try it? |
major Italian stores in these weeks have a senior Korg tester bring around a Kronos 61 for a day, they invited clients. Methinks it's happpening elsewhere as well.
This is why I asked if anybody else ("afr" and "kimu" are from Milan as well) went and tested it.
I presume (from the store clerk's questions to ME: "how did you like it?" "would you buy that or a new motif?" etc.) that it's also a matter of "sales pool" before the mega-orders for May.
| Akos Janca wrote: | | PS. Wind instruments are the most difficult to imitate WELL on a keyboard synth/sampler/modeler. |
well, I know I'll sound as a broken record, but the technology has been there for almost 20 years (1994) in old yamaha synths of the VL generation (which command absurd prices: I paid 600 euro for every VOICE of the poly version - albeit admittedly after customization, and 4000 for the mono but better sounding vl-1).
It's just a matter of copyrights and WILL.
And it's a matter of WANTING the phrase "next generation" to be totally TRUE.
let's forget sampling, the "next generation" is not sampling.
Since yamaha is still into sampling, why not buying from them the technology they discarded? The kronos would have been the first total-modeled poly synth!
(oh, right: drum modeling exists since long, korg has it - wavedrum - but drums are also sampled in the kronos)
This is why I feel the Kronos is "transitional". It didn't dare "going modeling" all the way,
but they will have to, sooner or later.
People were not ready to fork out 4-figures for top sonic accuracy in the mid-90s [come on, in 1992 people played "jump" and "Lucky man" on the Korg m1...), but they now want far better quality (read our... no: read YOURS comment about the sonic quality of the Oasys).
They showed it in the piano domain, in the hammond domain, in the EP domain, in the VA domain...
Time to realize tastes have evolved.
Last edited by ozy on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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robinkle
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 382
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Many engines have been made since the release of Oasys and they are up to 9 engines now. It looks like they have been in the making of engines until now with SGX-1 and EP-1 engines. Why would they stop now? Wind Instrument synth engine, yes please. |
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ozy thanks for the first hand reports! |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Akos Janca wrote: | | PS. Wind instruments are the most difficult to imitate WELL on a keyboard synth/sampler/modeler. I think Korg could do it somehow (perhaps with a breath controller) but it needs serious development, time, money etc. so I think it simply doesn't worth it for them to do. |
I'm going to violate my own rule here...
If they'd have at least included the last remaining engines from MOSS (which DID have that development over 10 years ago), I think much of the criticism would be avoided:
Brass model
Reed model
Resonance
Bowed String model
Vocal model (from OASYS PCI card)
I would love to hear from Korg on why they left those out...
But since they aren't marketing this as an open platform, I'm pretty sure they won't be introducing any new engines for it. What we see is what we get. Based on the lack of updates for the M50/M3, I doubt we'll see more than an update or two before it's discontinued.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
Last edited by McHale on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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