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They changed the specs!
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb question but here goes, why do you need more Ram, can't you just use an external drive for samples and such? Confused
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti

Ext drive loads samples into synth (yes) RAM is destination of samples loaded in.

Parameters of available RAM dictate what can or cannot be loaded in. Hence the discussion and the desire for user expandable RAM. More RAM = more samples (good), limited or reduced RAM = fewer user samples = bad if you're looking forward to using Kronos as a sampler.



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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
newb question but here goes, why do you need more Ram, can't you just use an external drive for samples and such? Confused


It's a question of how many samples you can have loaded at once. With all the factory sample expansions loaded into memory, there's not much space left for user samples. Folks wanting to use large third-party libraries will have to unload most, if not all, of the pre-loaded expansions in order to free up enough RAM.

Edit: To be more clear, the Kronos is like most workstations in that it can only play (user) samples from RAM. On the other hand, the game-changing feature about the Kronos is that it can stream factory samples directly from the SSD -- which is how we end up with that delicious 12GB sample library, with everything accessible simultaneously.

There are really only two other solutions to this dilemma: expand the sample memory, or stream user samples from the SSD. And since Korg have noted that streaming of user samples will not be supported...

-----

I'm personally not that concerned, because I really only used the M3's sample RAM for the "in-track sampling" feature, as a workaround for recording audio tracks. Since the Kronos has proper audio-track recording, and can stream tracks directly from the SSD, I don't need much sample memory. I can see where it would be a serious problem for other folks, though. Some of those Karo libraries are massive.


Last edited by Citizen Klaus on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OASYS V 1 had support for 1GB of RAM; OASYS V1.2 had support for 2GB RAM.

I think Dan has been quite clear, and offers cause for optimism for support for more RAM in the future. From my (and other OASYS users' experience), many similar indicators / engagement on the OASYS forum over the past 5 years often lead to the implementation of the discussed feature (not always, but often).

But here, Dan has told us he and Korg are completely aware for the desire for more RAM. The fact that Dan has responded in this way during the active discussion - and indicates Korg's awareness of the issue - suggests that they intend to increase Kronos support for more RAM in a future OS update if in any way possible. As we all already know, neither Dan nor anyone from Korg can offer a clear and unequivocal indicator that that will indeed arise because of their contractual non-disclosure policy and for the understandable reason that they may find themselves in a position not being able to support such a feature for whatever hitherto unforeseen reason. But I think it is reasonable to take from Dan's response that, all things being well over the next year or so, support for more RAM will come in an update.


I think Rich's point is very important and needs to be taken on board very earnestly by the way - disabling one or more EXs's will free up more RAM - and one of THE strengths of the Kronos is the ability to configure it in a multitude of ways and save each configuration as an ALL DATA set within which is embedded the 3rd pary samples. Its a beautiful system and allows for Kronos to be managed in a very comprehensive and flexible manner. It should be looked upon as a strength - with each different required user-role and scenario catered for with a separate Kronos All-DATA saved file and each one having different programs, combis, song templates, 3rd party samples and set lists - and with appropriate loading of EXs's - all managed in a succinct manner virtually on a per "All Data" basis. So as far as a workstation can go these days and managed in this way, there can easily be access to high hundreds of megs of RAM if you want it; and I for one am confident there will be support for up to 4GB RAM before too long (and I'm also holding out for support for extra RAM also meaning Korg's capacity to release one or two more EXs's for Kronos over it's lifecycle).

By the way - EVERY instrument has it's limits - so I would not look on this as a dilemma - I look on it as an opportunity to think about my work flow, different compositional scenarios and so on. The question/issue is as much about how much time you put into managing that, making it well optimised and organised, for your needs. But if you think about it you can reconfigure your Kronos in quite fundamentally different ways, each saveable and loadable in a very easy manner. You'll need to do some of this quite comprehensively for Kronos in any case if you do not want chaos to ensue over time - this is a major 'system' and will require some '
systems management in any case. So there's a lot more than available RAM to think about - there's thinking about available program locations, combis, song templates, saving effects presets, HD libraries of programs, combis, songs, samples... anyone wanting to get the best from their Kronos will need to think a bit about all of these and in this process plenty of ways will arise to optimise RAM if you need large numbers of hundreds of Megs of RAM for your own sample libraries.


I spent (on and off) over three years optimising my OASYS and it is now highly tuned to a range of scenarios suitable for me - including loading 3rd party samples - and serves me beautifully (chek out http://www.knect.ie/OASYS_Info.html if you're interested). Indeed the bulk of the time was spent managing what programs are loaded for each synth engine, ordering my libraries on HD and so on (there are far more available programs than available program memory locations on OASYS and Kronos); but this is all work flow stuff and again anyone serious about managing their Kronos should go through this and will find ample ways to harness Kronos's RAM during that reorganisation.

Kevin.
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DaveBoulden
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin, I noticed you had a CP80 listed in the KN_LIB section of the linked document. I take it that's your owned programmed library? Will you be selling/sharing your CP80 programs ported to the Kronos? I've always struggled to get a really believable detuned CP80 sound on any of the synths I've owned (including a Motif!). I came sort of close on a Roland Fantom X7, but it just wasn't rich enough. The only other synth I've ever heard really achieve that sound is a Nord Electro (listen to the "Gabriel-esque CP80" example in the sound demos section on the right: http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Electro_3)
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SpIdErWeB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just give us 4 Gb of RAM and it'll be fine Smile

Phil
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zahush76
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale wrote:
Then don't pre-order until you get the final release specs - simple.


Thing is - i already did.

Quote:
I pre-ordered while NAMM was still going on. Sweetwater didn't even have pricing then, let alone finalized specs.


Wow. I guess that makes you a... hero or something? Wink

Anyway, a little reading comprehension can do you some good. All i said was that at first, the specs seamed like they had changed for the worse. But then rich and dan said it had something to do with adding new samples that weren't on the kronos before. I think everybody would be more than happy to know - or get a clue - as to what those samples are.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you shouldn't have pre-ordered if you expected final product specs in January and aren't willing to accept any changes or wait until they are finalized. Seriously...

zahush76 wrote:
Wow. I guess that makes you a... hero or something?


No. I just ordered based on engines, OASYS DNA, and upgrades. I'm not all hung up on available RAM going down 100 MB.

ALSO

The specs are far from being finalized (well, they are closer than what they were) but they aren't even at 1.0 yet. Why is ANYBODY surprised that OMG THE SPECS CHANGED!?!? THE SPECS CHANGED!!! WE NEED ANSWERS!!!!!

OMG!!! OMG!!!


Like I said, wait until they are finalized, cause they ain't yet.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveBoulden wrote:
Kevin, I noticed you had a CP80 listed in the KN_LIB section of the linked document. I take it that's your owned programmed library? Will you be selling/sharing your CP80 programs ported to the Kronos? I've always struggled to get a really believable detuned CP80 sound on any of the synths I've owned (including a Motif!). I came sort of close on a Roland Fantom X7, but it just wasn't rich enough. The only other synth I've ever heard really achieve that sound is a Nord Electro (listen to the "Gabriel-esque CP80" example in the sound demos section on the right: http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Electro_3)


Dave -

Most of my programs, including the CP80 programs, are available for free download at:

http://www.knect.ie/OASYS.html

These programs are based on the OASYS/Kronos internal CP80 multisample. It's quite respectable - superior in my opinion to the Nord Stage and Electro CP80 sample (I've compared them and I feel the OASYS CP80 multisample is clearly superior to the Nords) and up there with CP80 samples on Yamaha electric pianos ( save the CP1 and 5 whihc are probably superior). But I'm very happy with these CP80 programs - they are genuinely very usable and respectable.

Note also that the Korg expansion packs released for OASYS (and freely downloadable from http://www.korguser.net) are absolutely first rate - they truly show how fabulous HD1 is, and they also contain some absolutely excellent CP80 programs.

Note that between HD1 and Effects, there are an array of VERY capable features that enable outstanding pianos besides the new dedicated SGX adn EP1. Firstly there's a parameter called "Pitch Stretch" which works very well in adjusting the tone of all samples and especially pianos samples (acoustic and electric). So this parameter alone offers great variety of piano program 'types'. Then you have fabulous effect such as Amp Modelling, Mic Preamp Modelling, Piano- Body / Damper, Tremolo, to name but a few that add significantly to electric piano programs.

So all of these called into action make the OASYS/Kronos very capable in the piano department and you can be confident of a range of very usable CP80 programs between mine and those inthe Korg Expansion pack.

Cheers,
Kevin.
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DaveBoulden
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's excellent, thanks Kevin. Your CP80 programs will, no doubt, be the first downlaods I try out once I get a Kronos 73. I've always managed to find usable EPs (CP80 and Wurlys being my personal favourites) except for the CP80, they always seems to be way too "reedy". Are there any audio examples of your programs to be heard anywhere?
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you find them OK and that I haven't over cooked my description of them. Feel free to dislike them and say so here if you feel there not up to the mark !!

cheers,
Kevin.
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zahush76
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale wrote:
I guess you shouldn't have pre-ordered if you expected final product specs in January and aren't willing to accept any changes or wait until they are finalized. Seriously...

zahush76 wrote:
Wow. I guess that makes you a... hero or something?


No. I just ordered based on engines, OASYS DNA, and upgrades. I'm not all hung up on available RAM going down 100 MB.

ALSO

The specs are far from being finalized (well, they are closer than what they were) but they aren't even at 1.0 yet. Why is ANYBODY surprised that OMG THE SPECS CHANGED!?!? THE SPECS CHANGED!!! WE NEED ANSWERS!!!!!

OMG!!! OMG!!!


Like I said, wait until they are finalized, cause they ain't yet.


Maybe you didn't fully read what i wrote. Right now, i'm very interested in knowing what sample were newlly added to the kronos. The fact that that's the reason why the specs changed - is a good thing imo. I'm just interested in knowing what new addition just joined the internal sample library.

Other than that, i think your attitude and idollizing of the Kronos is very close to that of a 13 year old to Justin Bieber.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AGAIN...

SPECS AREN'T FINAL YET. THE MANUAL ISN'T FINISHED YET.

I'm sure all of the Korg R&D people have your name at the top of their checklist of important things to take care of before it's released, but I'd rather have them working on getting the final product out then answering newb questions over and over as specs change. WAIT like adults do.

zahush76 wrote:
...to Justin Bieber.


What do you have against Justin Bieber?
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zahush76
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale wrote:

What do you have against Justin Bieber?


Not against Justin Bieber - as much as thirteen year old girl that idolizes him. That's the pathetic part.
When you idolize someone or something - you refuse to see anything negative about it, even if it's right infront of your eyes. You're willing to do almost everything for it, with no self criticism. Seems to me that's the case with you and the Kronos.
I mean, it's a superb keyboard. But it's just a keyboard. Grow up already.
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Rosen Sound
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes more ram would be nice.. but im on the boat named
"They give you NINE DAMN SYNTH ENGINES TO WORK WITH"
I load 16 megs of ram into my triton on power up. And i can live with everything else in the ROM.
now thats with one synth engine... now lets imagine NINE. as well as other libraries.
I seriously dont think losing RAM will kill you. If you dont like what the keyboard does, then why get it? If you need sampling so bad and have a computer why not save a million bux and buy a midi controller? it all seems a little stupid to me. With every sample and patch and librarie and effect processors youre getting with the kronos, i seriously see NO room for complaining about RAM that you can free up TO YOUR DESIRE
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