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jeebustrain · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: audio interface - ASIO?

OK - so some of you already know of my attempts to get full functionality of the audio interface in Linux. My ultimate goal was to use the audio interface as an output from some softsynths from my netbook tablet. Because that was not going as well as I would have hoped (still working though), I decided to take a different route. I built a parallel Windows XP install on the same machine and have been doing some tests that way.

The first thing I came across is that there is no native working ASIO driver for the Kronos. I read some posts here where some people were using the MME/DX audio driver. That works great for basic playback/recording, but the latency is awful (almost 50ms) for playing softsynths. BTW, I've been using Ableton Live as my VST Host.

So my next step was to install ASIO4ALL. I configured it to use the Kronos, disabled the input (since I don't need it), and began fiddling with buffer settings (overall size, offset) and driver error compensation (an Ableton live setting). In any case, I found that even the slimmest of softsynths would spike the cpu and cause all kinds of popping and distortion. When I changed to the netbook built-in card (using ASIO4ALL), all of the distortion problems went away.

Now, I have another USB Audio interface (M-Audio Fast Track Pro) I can use - I've thought about using SPDIF to make a direct digital connection into the Kronos (I still want the Kronos to be the master mixer for all sound). That works perfectly fine and I can run any soft synth I want on this lowly little Atom netbook, even ones that use a lot of CPU.

Has anyone using a Windows PC managed to make this actually work? I've been using softsynths and have been performing with a computer based setup for almost 8 years now, so I'd like to say I have a bit of experience in this whole thing. But I'm a bit perplexed by this "audio interface" that was included. The only thing I can even see any use for it at this point is to just record a mixdown from the Kronos into a stereo track on a PC.
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jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

I made some efforts in Windows7: same story.

Frankly, at least with the present driver, I fail to see ANY possible serious use of the Kronos audio interface. And that will hardly change as long as it can't provide real Asio with tolerable latency values.

It is all the more essential that the coming plugin works well with any good Asio soundcard on Windows systems.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

danatkorg · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject:

Note that the KRONOS is USB class-compliant for audio. This means that there are no native Korg audio drivers per se; instead, it's using the standard Microsoft drivers.
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Dan Phillips
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jeebustrain · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:17 am Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

Dan, what you say could mean two different things
- that Korg wants to rely on that and stay with it
- or that Korg will write their own driver for the Kronos (I guess embedded) sound card.

I know of no musicians making any use of MME/DirectX drivers, since ages: such drivers may work for some kind of internal multimedia use, but don't remotely deliver latencies required for recording. The newer MS WDM drivers are useable sometimes, but Asio is the only common and reliable Windows standard for recording. Even Cakewalk, who tried to get by with their own DirectX driver concept a long time ago, offer Asio connection to their DAW since years now.

I see no chance for Korg getting around this fact IF they want to offer the Kronos soundcard for recording. And the plugin also will only be useful with full Asio support for connection to common soundcards.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

jeebustrain · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:31 am Post subject:

danatkorg · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:46 am Post subject:

danatkorg · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:52 am Post subject:

jeebustrain · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:13 am Post subject:

danatkorg · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 am Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

I'm just a Windows user and no technician, so I can't say much about a USB class compliant midi/audio interface in Windows.

But a few things are obvious with the present driver:
- it does not even show up as WDM driver in Windows 7 32bit, nor 64bit (not speaking of Asio, which is no Microsoft, but a Steinberg standard and de facto standard for any serious recording in Windows so far).
- on my system the USB connection (if used or not, connection alone does it) causes audio dropouts in my recording software (Sonar X1 Producer)
- the DirectX driver latencies seem to be far beyond useable in any recording environment, no matter which software you use

Maybe we just have to see the plugin in use to see what is working and what possibly not. If the plugin is no generic solution, but works as VSTi with any Asio soundcard, the Kronos soundcard isn't needed. Even in this case, a working USB midi connection Kronos-PC, not causing audio recording problems here, would be welcome.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

Redrain · Full Member Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 111

Another problem is that the host sequencer don't see the 4 physical audio output ok the kronos....

It what very usefull from me to access 4 audio output from my external pc..

I use pc live, so I use output L/R for the audio track that I can't play

Audio Output 1 for the drummer click (I must use a click sound track on combi to redirect it to audio output 1 but I must copy the click setting to all the combi that I use because during the song play I must change combi )

If the sequencer (nuendo in my case) can see 4 the output of the Kronos I will do better work generating the click inside the sequencer and direct it to kronos audio output 1 !

The same thing with the bass player...Now we not have one and the bass is an audio file played by the sequencer....but I can't direct it to a bass amp because the bass track can be directed only to output L/R

Ah.....I don't want t carry on an audio card.....