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Kontrol49
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Whatever the competition comes up with,yamaha,Roland or Korg you got to admit that the workstation concepts and features of today's machines are pretty awesome when you look back at the days of the M1,and with each new machine comes some really great ideas,if only we could take best bits from each one and meld it into the ultimate workstation.
I kind of get the impression that the 3 big names are all well aware of each others devices as there always seems to be areas where they lack that others excel,Korg seem to have got the engines right and Roland the sequencer side
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apex
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Do you all REALLY think that Yamaha OR Roland is about to come out with a new "flagship"... considering:
the JP-80 just released - considering the cost of the JP.. .what would they charge for a JP-80 with a sampler and a sequencer?... I don't think Roland is going to make another move for a little bit....
Yamaha on the other hand.... very well could, but think about how pissed loyal Yamaha fans would be to have just sold their XS boards to upgrade to the XF.. and then the XF be just shoved to the side.
I think we got another year or so before any thing else new comes out (from the big three...)
Or am I WAY off!!!???
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Mystic38
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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lol Apex, you are not way off.. but the OP didnt specify a timeline either..
Yamaha have the biggest concerns..but also the deepest pockets as they are the major market leader.. (and i seriously doubt that the Kronos has the ability to outsell the motif).. so anything they do needs to encompass their current (massive ) customer base.. so a new workstation needs to be
a) a superset of the motif xf soundset
b) a superset of the motif architecture
c) backward compatible
that requires some out of the box architecture decisions to make a new motif both new, exciting, interesting (and all of the above).
Roland have all the sounds, architectures and capability to bring forward a new and very interesting workstation... but it certainly wont be 2012.. i suspect they (Roland) are only staffed for one synth project at a time.
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Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystic38 wrote: | Yamaha have the biggest concerns...so anything they do needs to encompass their current (massive ) customer base.. so a new workstation needs to be
a) a superset of the motif xf soundset
b) a superset of the motif architecture
c) backward compatible
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Yamaha's "next big thing" doesn't have to be a new Motif or a workstation of any sort. The Jupiter 80 generating excitement for Roland is unrelated to the Fantom line, which continues. |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment!
I think Yamaha's next new workstation may be closer than you think.
The XF was just a stop gap IMO as it really wasn't much of an upgrade.
I read somewhere (TOTALLY rumor) that Yamaha actually already had FINISHED their next gen workstation and then shelved it because there was no competition for it as even the Motif was still beating the pants off them.
With the Kronos I don't care, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something big from Yamaha come NAMM 2012. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the XF stay where it is for another year either!
Roland is harder to say with the release of the JP-80, but I really don't care about Roland anyway. They lost my interest about 10 years ago and never got it back.
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Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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apex
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystic38 wrote: | lol Apex, you are not way off.. but the OP didnt specify a timeline either..
Yamaha have the biggest concerns..but also the deepest pockets as they are the major market leader.. (and i seriously doubt that the Kronos has the ability to outsell the motif).. so anything they do needs to encompass their current (massive ) customer base.. so a new workstation needs to be
a) a superset of the motif xf soundset
b) a superset of the motif architecture
c) backward compatible
that requires some out of the box architecture decisions to make a new motif both new, exciting, interesting (and all of the above).
Roland have all the sounds, architectures and capability to bring forward a new and very interesting workstation... but it certainly wont be 2012.. i suspect they (Roland) are only staffed for one synth project at a time. |
what exactly do you mean by "superset" of the XF soundset..."best of"? And all things considered... Kronos may not outsell for the simple fact of when the XF was released... the loyal Motifers already did their upgrade, so money for the Kronos may not be "available"....
and the massive customer base of the motif is not only based on their soundset (but it is a large portion), but also their pattern mode sequencer and DAW compatibility. With that said, if they release a "non-workstation" type of synth, do you think their customer base would remain faithful?... if that's the case, then why aren't the s90 series boards sales through the roof... that's essentially what an s90 xs is right? An XS without a sequencer/sampler?
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Synthoid
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| NuSkoolTone wrote: | | Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment! |
Couldn't resist. 
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| apex wrote: | | With that said, if they release a "non-workstation" type of synth, do you think their customer base would remain faithful?... if that's the case, then why aren't the s90 series boards sales through the roof... that's essentially what an s90 xs is right? An XS without a sequencer/sampler? |
Two things...
First, a "non-workstation" type of synth from Yamaha wouldn't have to be a Motif without the sequencer/sampler functions, any more than the Jupiter 80 is a Fantom without the sequencer/sampler function. Like Roland, they could try something completely new to supplement their line.
Second, I don't know how good or bad S90 sales are... but in fact, I was looking for a "gig friendly" version of a Motif, i.e. something like an XS without the sequencer and sampler, but didn't buy the S90XS because its 50 pound weight was not gig-friendly enough for me. I did end up buying the much lighter MOX, however, even though it had the sequencer, arpeggiator, and drum track functions I didn't care about... and it didn't have the gig-useful S90 features of aftertouch, more pedal jacks, and assignable outs. Unfortunately, they never seem to custom make these things for just the combination I want...  |
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psalm 23
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="NuSkoolTone"]Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment!
I think Yamaha's next new workstation may be closer than you think.
The XF was just a stop gap IMO as it really wasn't much of an upgrade.
I read somewhere (TOTALLY rumor) that Yamaha actually already had FINISHED their next gen workstation and then shelved it because there was no competition for it as even the Motif was still beating the pants off them.
With the Kronos I don't care, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something big from Yamaha come NAMM 2012. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the XF stay where it is for another year either!
Roland is harder to say with the release of the JP-80, but I really don't care about Roland anyway. They lost my interest about 10 years ago and never got it back.[/quote]
I was informed by a major retailer that they would not be supplying any of the XF series and they were selling them at cost: XF8 @ $2200, XF7 $1995. They said the Motif was being discontinued. I would gotten the XF8 but I was able to get the Kronos for $2500. |
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apex
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| NuSkoolTone wrote: | Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment!
I think Yamaha's next new workstation may be closer than you think.
The XF was just a stop gap IMO as it really wasn't much of an upgrade.
I read somewhere (TOTALLY rumor) that Yamaha actually already had FINISHED their next gen workstation and then shelved it because there was no competition for it as even the Motif was still beating the pants off them.
With the Kronos I don't care, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something big from Yamaha come NAMM 2012. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the XF stay where it is for another year either!
Roland is harder to say with the release of the JP-80, but I really don't care about Roland anyway. They lost my interest about 10 years ago and never got it back. |
DON'T SPREAD RUMORS... lol... now someone will take what you posted and post it somewhere else without saying "totally rumor" and they will change up the words just a bit... lol before you know it the post will say something like "I heard/read over on the Korg forums that Yamaha shelved all synth production because the Kronos was beating the pants off of their sales dating back to the first motif".... see how rumors get started? LOL
I think the XF too was just a means to repackage old stuff (parts, sounds, DANG NEAR everything) and make a nice profit... it was a way to salvage what was left of the lingering XS and capitalize on it!!!
If the XF is going to stay the flagship for another year, then I'm just going to go ahead and open the XF7 box and get to work, but if their release/announcement was going to be soon... I'd sell this bad boy QUICK!!!
I'm not sure that Roland could find a reasonable price point for a jp-80 type synth with a sequencer/sampler/ect... That's why I believe the jp-80 is IT for Roland... at least for 3 years or so. I also believe that they are going to release a MAJOR UPDATE for the Fantom G... maybe even sell it to make even more money..
Just imagine if they upgrade the sequencer AND also incorporate some of the supernatural ARX technology into the board... people would go CRAZY and the remaining Fantom G stock would be out the door SOOOO QUICK!!!
2nd hand market for Fantom Gs would even shoot up a bit. With that said, I sold a Fantom G7 with ARX-01 drums, ARX-02 electric piano, & 1GB RAM stick for $2425 + shipping... I had it listed at $2500 OR BEST OFFER and I believed that I'd never get close to that for it... and I was shocked to see it sell for the $2425... think about it... someone just paid $2500 (including shipping for a Roland Fantom G7)... how close is that to what they could have gotten a 61 key Kronos for? That's really amazing when you think about it. But either way, I'm happy and now I just have to decide if I'm going to settle into the XF7 for my top tier board (with Kronos 88 on the bottom) or go after the Roland Jupiter/XS rack combo. (not VERY interested in the JP... somewhat curious.. but never played/touched/seen one in person, so it's a bit harder of a jump to make.
Just last week a Fantom G7 with NO EXPANSIONS AT ALL sold for a little under $2200 and I thought that was great/crazy!!!! , but hey... things are worth what people will pay for them. I paid $1700 for that same board (without the expansions) almost 2 years ago (around Feb 2012 will be 2 years).
ANYWAY, I don't really think Roland is going to release anything else right now... the question is what is Yamaha going to do? I think their loyal Motif customers would be pretty upset to have jumped feet first into the XF only to be within a year away of the SUPER MOTIF (or whatever they call it.)
Wouldn't you be pissed if they did that? I mean maybe I should put it in Korg speak... if the Kronos 2 was released next summer... how would you all feel? I'd be kinda salty!!!! LOL!!!!
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apex
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| psalm 23 wrote: | | NuSkoolTone wrote: | Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment!
I think Yamaha's next new workstation may be closer than you think.
The XF was just a stop gap IMO as it really wasn't much of an upgrade.
I read somewhere (TOTALLY rumor) that Yamaha actually already had FINISHED their next gen workstation and then shelved it because there was no competition for it as even the Motif was still beating the pants off them.
With the Kronos I don't care, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something big from Yamaha come NAMM 2012. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the XF stay where it is for another year either!
Roland is harder to say with the release of the JP-80, but I really don't care about Roland anyway. They lost my interest about 10 years ago and never got it back. |
I was informed by a major retailer that they would not be supplying any of the XF series and they were selling them at cost: XF8 @ $2200, XF7 $1995. They said the Motif was being discontinued. I would gotten the XF8 but I was able to get the Kronos for $2500. |
Psalms, I wish you'd stop spreading that all around!!!!
I don't think J&R is considered a MAJOR retailer for music instruments.... They do sell them, but they also sell vacuum cleaners and FANS!!!!
Dave Polich (although he may be a little biased.... JUST MAYBE), but he said the XF was NOT being discontinued.. they may have paid him to say it though.  ) j/k
But what happened with them was simply ridding themselves of the very small amount of stock they had LEFT.
Are you sure you got a Kronos 88 for $2500? I thought you said on Motifator that it was $3000?....  
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just imagine if they upgrade the sequencer AND also incorporate some of the supernatural ARX technology into the board... people would go CRAZY and the remaining Fantom G stock would be out the door SOOOO QUICK!!! |
Ooooh Imagine Roland releasing the JP80 synth architecture as an ARX expansion board for the Fantom G.. 
I Think that might set the cat amongst the pigeons!!!! 
More like Pigs might fly!!!
We can but dream....
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DennyC
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 938
Location: Tucson, Az
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| apex wrote: | | NuSkoolTone wrote: | Nice to see this thread back on track after that RIDICULOUS derailment!
I think Yamaha's next new workstation may be closer than you think.
The XF was just a stop gap IMO as it really wasn't much of an upgrade.
I read somewhere (TOTALLY rumor) that Yamaha actually already had FINISHED their next gen workstation and then shelved it because there was no competition for it as even the Motif was still beating the pants off them.
With the Kronos I don't care, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something big from Yamaha come NAMM 2012. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the XF stay where it is for another year either!
Roland is harder to say with the release of the JP-80, but I really don't care about Roland anyway. They lost my interest about 10 years ago and never got it back. |
DON'T SPREAD RUMORS... lol... now someone will take what you posted and post it somewhere else without saying "totally rumor" and they will change up the words just a bit... lol before you know it the post will say something like "I heard/read over on the Korg forums that Yamaha shelved all synth production because the Kronos was beating the pants off of their sales dating back to the first motif".... see how rumors get started? LOL
I think the XF too was just a means to repackage old stuff (parts, sounds, DANG NEAR everything) and make a nice profit... it was a way to salvage what was left of the lingering XS and capitalize on it!!!
If the XF is going to stay the flagship for another year, then I'm just going to go ahead and open the XF7 box and get to work, but if their release/announcement was going to be soon... I'd sell this bad boy QUICK!!!
I'm not sure that Roland could find a reasonable price point for a jp-80 type synth with a sequencer/sampler/ect... That's why I believe the jp-80 is IT for Roland... at least for 3 years or so. I also believe that they are going to release a MAJOR UPDATE for the Fantom G... maybe even sell it to make even more money..
Just imagine if they upgrade the sequencer AND also incorporate some of the supernatural ARX technology into the board... people would go CRAZY and the remaining Fantom G stock would be out the door SOOOO QUICK!!!
2nd hand market for Fantom Gs would even shoot up a bit. With that said, I sold a Fantom G7 with ARX-01 drums, ARX-02 electric piano, & 1GB RAM stick for $2425 + shipping... I had it listed at $2500 OR BEST OFFER and I believed that I'd never get close to that for it... and I was shocked to see it sell for the $2425... think about it... someone just paid $2500 (including shipping for a Roland Fantom G7)... how close is that to what they could have gotten a 61 key Kronos for? That's really amazing when you think about it. But either way, I'm happy and now I just have to decide if I'm going to settle into the XF7 for my top tier board (with Kronos 88 on the bottom) or go after the Roland Jupiter/XS rack combo. (not VERY interested in the JP... somewhat curious.. but never played/touched/seen one in person, so it's a bit harder of a jump to make.
Just last week a Fantom G7 with NO EXPANSIONS AT ALL sold for a little under $2200 and I thought that was great/crazy!!!! , but hey... things are worth what people will pay for them. I paid $1700 for that same board (without the expansions) almost 2 years ago (around Feb 2012 will be 2 years).
ANYWAY, I don't really think Roland is going to release anything else right now... the question is what is Yamaha going to do? I think their loyal Motif customers would be pretty upset to have jumped feet first into the XF only to be within a year away of the SUPER MOTIF (or whatever they call it.)
Wouldn't you be pissed if they did that? I mean maybe I should put it in Korg speak... if the Kronos 2 was released next summer... how would you all feel? I'd be kinda salty!!!! LOL!!!! |
That is the quandary for both Yamaha and Roland and precisely stated! But, if the Kronos continues to build in sales, it is going to force both their hands. Probably, they will have to come up with something that might have reverberations with their loyal users. Kind of like what happened with folks like us with the Oasys and Kronos situation.
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balfi
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 19
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Someone in the motifator forum said the word is out (yeah yeah another rumor) that Yamaha is going to announce a motif xf rack at Winter NAMM. That would certainly sit well with the Kronos. I saw your response to that in motifator Apex |
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apex
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 2340
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| balfi wrote: | | Someone in the motifator forum said the word is out (yeah yeah another rumor) that Yamaha is going to announce a motif xf rack at Winter NAMM. That would certainly sit well with the Kronos. I saw your response to that in motifator Apex |
see rumors are horrible...
this is an exact copy of his post...
Talking about racks, some guys have said that maybe we’ll see the Motif XF rack this Winter NAMM. I think that is possible, considering Motif XS rack hit the market one year later than Motif XS workstation…
what he said and what you said is two different things.... lol[/i]
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