 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
miden
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| cello wrote: | | miden wrote: | | Not directed at you Cello at all, and there was certainly NO disrespect meant. ...it was directed more at the last two posters, who instead of encouragement load negativity into the post...maybe they meant well, but the syntax left a bit to be desired... |
No worries mate - am sure no-one who has posted here meant anything negative as such; just trying to be real (in my reading of it anyway).
It would be bad if we said the editor was a walk in the park - because it's not! It takes time (more time than I've been able to give it to be honest).
I see the Karma editor a bit like a piano - it is monumentally complex to play until you learn it, at which point it becomes easy. How long it takes to learn it is directly proportional to the amount of time invested.
And you got a reply from the man himself! - that's pretty cool  |
Cool, thanks Cello for understanding - yeah it was pretty nice to hear from SK |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sparker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Wales UK
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Miden:
I have both KARMA Kronos 2.5 and KARMA Triton 1.00 software.
The Kronos KARMA software (IMO) is much easier to use than the Triton KARMA software but still no walk in the park.
Yes. SK does give extensive and thorough documentation for his software packages, however I can't say I found them particularly 'easy' to understand and suspect that others don't either otherwise the tutorials and reference documents found on the KARMA-Lab wiki would be redundant. 
For what you want to do I'd suggest using the RPPR function as described on page 106 of the Kronos Operation Guide.
PS. I see several replies have been posted since I started to compose my reply. Miden - I wasn't trying to appear 'all-knowing' or negative in any way. I was merely agreeing with Basaristudios' assertion that KARMA is, in my admittedly limited experience, an extremely complex and detailed piece of software.
_________________
Kronos 61 & KK KARMA / Triton Ex c/w MOSS and TR KARMA / MS2000 / Radias / Kaossilator Pro & Kaossilator / Korg Kontrol 49 / Nanopad / Novation Nova / Waldorf Blofeld
Line 6 Flextone XL / Line 6 POD XT / Roland V Bass / Ampeg Portabass & Cab / Assorted Guitars (no whammy bar) ... and a Fender Champ ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
miden
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sparker wrote: | Miden:
I have both KARMA Kronos 2.5 and KARMA Triton 1.00 software.
The Kronos KARMA software (IMO) is much easier to use than the Triton KARMA software but still no walk in the park.
Yes. SK does give extensive and thorough documentation for his software packages, however I can't say I found them particularly 'easy' to understand and suspect that others don't either otherwise the tutorials and reference documents found on the KARMA-Lab wiki would be redundant.
For what you want to do I'd suggest using the RPPR function as described on page 106 of the Kronos Operation Guide. |
With respect Sparker I never said it was easy anywhere in my posts.. I said most editors are logical and follow similar principles, I NEVER said they were easy!!!
I said it is EASIER when applying the manual to one specific task, rather than trying to learn the entire thing in one go, but that was the term -ier, not that it was easy....
Thanks for the heads up on the RPPR and page # of the Kronos guide, but that refers more to Song Mode on the Kronos and not Karma from the look of it. I had already "skimmed" that section and Iw ill give it more detailed analysis when I get to the "deeper" functions of the Song Mode of the Kronos.
At the moment my biggest decision is whether to install KK Editor on my general DAW/Internet PC, or my NON-Internet music only PC...as I really would prefer NOT to pay for it twice  this is an important decision to make....and I only want to install it once and then re-image the drive.
My apologies if previous comments inferred an insult, it was so not intended. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sparker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Wales UK
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Miden - You can install it on both machines as the KARMA licence allows for installation on two seperate machines.
You are correct that the RPPR function is found in SEQ mode, however KARMA also runs in SEQ mode. The only limitation is that the key(s) used for RPPR can't be used to input into KARMA (not a problem if you use keys at the bottom or top end of the keyboard (and you don't need them in your composition or to trigger the KARMA modules).
I think you will need to set up two RPPR keys per phrase which you will need to trigger simultaneously, (one for Bass and one for the Drums) if you want two Timbres to play at once. (I haven't tried doing this myself, so I may be wrong here).
PS. The RPPR can be quantized to bring the two keys in simultaneously.
_________________
Kronos 61 & KK KARMA / Triton Ex c/w MOSS and TR KARMA / MS2000 / Radias / Kaossilator Pro & Kaossilator / Korg Kontrol 49 / Nanopad / Novation Nova / Waldorf Blofeld
Line 6 Flextone XL / Line 6 POD XT / Roland V Bass / Ampeg Portabass & Cab / Assorted Guitars (no whammy bar) ... and a Fender Champ ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
miden
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sparker wrote: | Miden - You can install it on both machines as the KARMA licence allows for installation on two seperate machines.
You are correct that the RPPR function is found in SEQ mode, however KARMA also runs in SEQ mode. The only limitation is that the key(s) used for RPPR can't be used to input into KARMA (not a problem if you use keys at the bottom or top end of the keyboard (and you don't need them in your composition or to trigger the KARMA modules).
I think you will need to set up two RPPR keys per phrase which you will need to trigger simultaneously, (one for Bass and one for the Drums) if you want two Timbres to play at once. (I haven't tried doing this myself, so I may be wrong here).
PS. The RPPR can be quantized to bring the two keys in simultaneously. |
Ahh cool thanks for that info re licencing...that's one out of the way!!
I can see what you are saying about keys, but my personal pref is to NOT use the keybed in any way other than to play notes maybe use velocity sensing occasionally, but that is about the limit...
I want to really set it all up within Karma Scenes (or in Karma generally really) if I can.....I do want separation of tasking on the K. Then use the Setlist to bring it all together for the gig (much the same as the Songbook on the PA series), and then ultimately all controlled from my iPad software, using the CC commands to select Setlist entries.
D |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sparker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Wales UK
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | my personal pref is to NOT use the keybed in any way other than to play notes |
That makes sense, especially so if like me you have a 61.
If you have an external midi controller that can can send note data (either from a keyboard or a pad) then you could set the RPPR to the C0-C1 range and then trigger it externally without using any of the keys on the keyboard 
_________________
Kronos 61 & KK KARMA / Triton Ex c/w MOSS and TR KARMA / MS2000 / Radias / Kaossilator Pro & Kaossilator / Korg Kontrol 49 / Nanopad / Novation Nova / Waldorf Blofeld
Line 6 Flextone XL / Line 6 POD XT / Roland V Bass / Ampeg Portabass & Cab / Assorted Guitars (no whammy bar) ... and a Fender Champ ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
miden
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sparker wrote: | | Quote: | | my personal pref is to NOT use the keybed in any way other than to play notes |
That makes sense, especially so if like me you have a 61.
If you have an external midi controller that can can send note data (either from a keyboard or a pad) then you could set the RPPR to the C0-C1 range and then trigger it externally without using any of the keys on the keyboard |
Yes that would be a good idea I agree. I have just bought the NanoKontrol 2 which should be here in a few days, so I can experiment with that.
TBH, I am still getting my "headspace" around the Kronos hardware and OS, and figuring out the little foibles and shortcuts, what you can and cannot do with the hardware controls and exploring all the menus and pathways!!
I am coming from over a decade of using Korg Italy OS systems!! Which although quite similar are remarkably different in so many ways  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stephen, you trying to embarass me now??? LOL
and Dennis, yes, i stand behind every word i said before...from experience,
quiet a few years and actually quiet deep, waaaaayyy beyond importing
and tweaking.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| miden wrote: | | I said most editors are logical and follow similar principles, I NEVER said they were easy!!! |
And trust me, there is NOTHING Logical about this Editor at all, Logics dont
work here, only brains and experience, no common sense and no logic.
Its not Cubase and its not Ableton Live and i am not nor did i discourage you
but i have the habit of kinda use a little harder words when it comes to the
KARMA editor, it is not really something for any Mortal...as you will taste it your self.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keyplayer14
Full Member
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 160
Location: Exeter
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BasariStudios wrote: | | miden wrote: | | I said most editors are logical and follow similar principles, I NEVER said they were easy!!! |
And trust me, there is NOTHING Logical about this Editor at all, Logics dont
work here, only brains and experience, no common sense and no logic.
Its not Cubase and its not Ableton Live and i am not nor did i discourage you
but i have the habit of kinda use a little harder words when it comes to the
KARMA editor, it is not really something for any Mortal...as you will taste it your self. |
Have to agree with this, I've found it to be a pretty steep learning curve. Well worth the effort though!
_________________
Korg Kronos 88, Trinity Plus, Wavestation SR, X5D, M1
Roland RD 700, V-Synth GT, Jupiter 80, JV 1080
Akai MPD32, Cubase 5, NI Komplete, Spectrasonics Omnisphere, Stylus RMX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BasariStudios wrote: |
And trust me, there is NOTHING Logical about this Editor at all, Logics dont
work here, only brains and experience, no common sense and no logic. |
While I would be the first to suggest that learning about how KARMA *really* functions "under the hood" is not a simple thing, I would have to take exception to the idea that there's no "logic" to it.
It's actually quite logical, once you understand how it works. Musical phrases are broken down into their individual "attributes" (Rhythm, Duration, Velocity, Pitch indexes, etc.) and you have independent control over each attribute.
Gaining that "understanding of how it works" is the difficult part.
The problem, more or less, is that it doesn't resemble anything else you may have worked with before. There's nothing to compare it to, no "common ground" with any other music editing system. It's a completely different "paradigm", and so, being an expert at sequencing or using a DAW doesn't really help. About the closest thing it compares to is some step sequencers, but in KARMA you have individual step sequencers for each attribute, with additional parameters, that don't necessarily line up with each other unless you tell them to line up with each other.
It would help if I could ever get around to my "dream" of providing video tutorials for each page of the GE Editor, for example - maybe someday.
| keyplayer14 wrote: | | Have to agree with this, I've found it to be a pretty steep learning curve. Well worth the effort though! |
Thanks for that.
_________________
Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought if - instead of even more detailed video instructions mirroring the complexity - it would be possible to implement some "assistant" procedures into the software, leading you step by step through some fundamental category setups from "classic arpeggio" over "guitar strumming" to some other complex KARMA scenes.
Excuse my simplicistic approach, but from my view as potential user it would be much more inviting, if I knew I could get some basic things done fast that way, instead of having to work my way into a "mutidimensional step sequencer" right away.
The key issue for me is not so much that I have to work my way into something new - I did that for the Kronos OS basics within some weeks and am always curious and ready for something interesting - but rather, that I am chronically short of time for musical projects besides my main profession, and that the time for the technological aspects of music making just has to be limited, to get to the main purpose of really playing and recording. And Karma looks at the same time rewarding, and intimidating and time consuming right from the start to me.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sparker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Wales UK
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"It's logic Jim, just not as we know it." - Nimoy winks at Urhura.
Yep, it's that step up from old school, two valued, Aristotlian logic (true/false - And/Or - If/Then) to Frege's second order predicate logic (Some/All - If and Only Iff - and 'What the hell is that virtual parameter controlling'?).
The KARMA programming structure makes perfect logical sense - my problem is that ol' intuitive side of my brain that goes round in curly spirals with nary a straight line thought in sight.
_________________
Kronos 61 & KK KARMA / Triton Ex c/w MOSS and TR KARMA / MS2000 / Radias / Kaossilator Pro & Kaossilator / Korg Kontrol 49 / Nanopad / Novation Nova / Waldorf Blofeld
Line 6 Flextone XL / Line 6 POD XT / Roland V Bass / Ampeg Portabass & Cab / Assorted Guitars (no whammy bar) ... and a Fender Champ ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sparker wrote: | | "It's logic Dennis, just not as we know it." |
Stephen...i think this would make more sense on my statement, never said better then this.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
